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Push, Violate, Ignore the rules

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Laboryes	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 8:59 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1677	In another thread Girls Rule said this Quote: i do believe that you cannot play by the rules, (when the powers that be aren't) , and expect to get anywhere. i do believe i will do damn near anything to help them expose themselves!! i think we should push, violate, ignore the rules in any future endeavors. (i'm with you, LY!) I'm in 100% agreement about this theory. I feel as working people as long as we stay confined within the structured box that the corporate powers(either corporate or corporate union) keep us in to keep us controlled we will never again make any real gains that improves our livelihoods. While I have a few ideas of my own as does GR I would like to hear from the rest of you. What's your ideas and thoughts on how we can "push, violate, ignore the rules" and make our working voices heard loud and clear? Do you feel it would be beneficial? if so why? Or... Do you feel it's a bad idea? If so why? Either way let's hear it gang! _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn
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Pearson	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:29 pm
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1413 Location: Sun City AZ	I'd be a fool to say it is a bad idea, but one of the reasons i struggle with it is it puts folks in harms way. I know how easy it is for an employer to fire someone and how hard it is to get them back. Even worse, i know how disruptive it is to a person who needs that weekly paycheck to suddenly find themselves without one. The bigger problem would be how your local union acts if you are doing it without them or their blessing. Call my old and stodgy, but all of these trouble me. Giving people suggestions that leaves them in jeopardy is troubling for me. The sad fact is, it may well be the only answer to fix the mess we are in. It would mean the masses would have to embrace the idea of civil disobedience or some form of militancy. One or two of you doing it would be problematic. In Alynsky's Rules For Radicals, he was pretty emphatic; the only course for meaningful change is through aggressive and overt acts. Hard to argue, though i suspect stern and the ctw gang would telling us how their corporate partnerships are far more sensible. The question of course then becomes; who does the partnership benefit? Employer? Union? Member? _________________ If we don't do it, who will?
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Laboryes	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 1:49 pm
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1677	Quote: I'd be a fool to say it is a bad idea, but one of the reasons i struggle with it is it puts folks in harms way. Bill there has got be many more ways than the standard type of protest that are in your face and out of the box that wouldn't put members in harms way. Take for example the facial hair issue there was only one member that put themselves in harms way and that was me. Many others contributed to make it successful but it was from the safety of their puters or phones. This is why I wanted this discussion to come up with effect ways that would work without putting members in harm. If members see these things working they maybe more interested in getting involved. _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn
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GRUMPY	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 4:41 pm
Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 174	I am in agreement over something having to be done, don't get me wrong. Here is the thing IMO,people are still split on if they are willing to help themselves or others. I will give you my story later why I beleive this. When the one's that are pushing the envelope,etc. get themselves in a bind, you find out in a hurry who really is on board or not. I am not even sure if some of them would stand fast if shit really hit the fan. I have no magic answer on how to turn things around. I know that the masses are looking for that magic fix all pill( like a diet), and are not willing to do the work needed. LY, you did an awesome job with your facial hair issue, but think about the people that helped you. Not the one's outside of work. If you and the rest lost your job, how many would be there standing with you ? Just a thought. Things will get better some day( I hope). Hell, look at me. I went through some shit recently and had the help of some good friends . I feel much better and I can sleep at night knowing that I did what I could. If I had to do it again, I would.
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workerpower	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 5:51 pm
Joined: 29 Mar 2007 Posts: 101	There are ways to push the envelope without putting a lot of risk on anyone. I think a lot more people would take risks if they knew something good could come of it. And that usually means they have to see a victory of some sort. The amateur historians will recall the Autolyte strike in Toledo in 1937(?) The strike started as a very small group of people. Most workers stayed in the plant. When the strikers realized there was no way to win a contract or union recognition, they changed their demand to reinstatement. They were able to be a big enough pain that the company agreed to rehire them after some time. The rest of the workers got the message. "They can fire me, but we can fight and get our jobs back! We can win things by fighting for them." So the next time they struck, most of the workforce went with them. This is not to say I am advocating wildcat strikes at supermarkets, because I don't know that they would achieve much of anything. The idea is to win a small victory to show people, and then asking them to support a bigger demand. There are also lots of ways to play outside the box without risking ones job or livelihood. Organizing inside the union is one of them. You all have the right to organize factions and caucuses in side the union. They may not be formally recognized by the union, but they can't stop you from doing it. If an organized caucus asks the leadership to endorse an action, and the leadership refuses, there is nothing preventing the cauacus from doing it independent of the union. When you do, and it is a public action that will get people attention, 99% of the time the leadership will sign on. I have seen a lot of union leaders try to walk away and leave workers hanging, but I have seen very few succeed at it, especially with the current sophistication of media and the generally anti-union climate in the political sphere. The UFCW International refused to support the fighting members of Local P-9, but that is the only time I can think of where leadership actually publicly opposed a group of fighting workers. The Laborers left some workers ot to dry in Morganton, NC several years back, but even then they never oppossed the workers fight, and they donated a lot of money to start a workers center there that has been more militant than most unions anyways. They knew they couldn't oppose it, even if they wanted nothing to do with it. UNITE wanted to abandon some workers striking for recognition in Florida a few years ago. (The union wanted them to wait for an election, and the workers refused to return to work.) But quick thinking and action by some of the workers and some activists in the area started collecting public support from other organizations. UNITE was basically cornered into supporting the workers fight, including their methods, else their repuatation among workers, unions, community groups and the beloved politicians would be severely damaged. The more the union officials base themselves on spin and image, the more sensitive they become to such things, especially if there is any sophistication and focus on the part of the dissident members.
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wm pasz	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:07 pm
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1180 Location: Toronto	Protest in ways that make individuals anonymous and invisible. There's no question at all that sticking your neck out will get you fired and this is why most people don't bother. "Taking a stand" is something that you do before a firing squad. The Internet provides limitless opportunties for invisible activism that is much more effective than the old protest in front of the factory gates or individual taking of stands which inevitably leads to somebody getting their head blown off. The reality is that when it comes to rebellion, it's the communication that matters and not the identity of the communicator. Many rebels throughout history have communicated anonymously or under pseudonyms. So if you want to crank the heat up under the bosses' or union leaders' butts, get the message out without feeling compelled to show your ID. There are incredible possibilities now with the availability of not only text but video, live conversation, Internet radio, p2p file sharing (great for interesting documents that you want to circulate widely), anonymous web site registration and so on. People need to start thinking about using these tools instead of confining their thinking to traditional means that never really worked that well and no longer work at all. _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X
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SFway	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:51 pm
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 567	Let's begin with the understanding that "the rules" are not created by working people, for working people, and with working people. "The rules" are created by organizations which have, nearly all the time, their own agendas. "The rules" are created, interpreted, enforced by political entities of various sorts, by economic organizations including corporations, by bureaucratic systems which administer "the rules"; "the rules" are interpreted by lawyers, judges, etc. "The rules" are not designed for people to accomplish a purpose, they exist to prevent accomplishment, to divert the energy, weaken it, send it off in multiple directions. "The rules" can be changed, against incredible resistance, slowly. "The rules" can be used against the organizations that create/develop/interpret the rules. No organization actually operates by its own rules. They can't, period. If someone insists that "the rules" be followed, time after time, in every instance, the organization(s) become bogged down, using energy and resources to thrash against the net that "the rules" have created for them as well as for us. Every measure of energy an organization uses to struggle against "the rules" means a decreasing measure of energy that organization can use to accomplish its purpose. "The rules" are a two-way street, in short. They can be used. This is the first part of an overall strategy. The phrase, the action of "Work to Rule" is indicative. The second part of the general strategy is, naturally, to ignore the rules, even violate the rules, while obeying the 11th Commandment ("Thou Shalt Not Get Caught!), and creating new rules in the process. All of this is predicated on knowing "the rules", i.e. information and education.
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SharynS	Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 11:55 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2533 Location: the 'puter	Quote: "The rules" are a two-way street, in short. They can be used. For example? My very own endearing tyrant of a manager, armed with the employers letterhead recently set upon a stringent "no water" at the workstation rule. Members are being assured there will be watering holes (coolers) conveniently located and that no-one will be prevented from drinking at it. I think we're all familiar with how that works, especially on check stands where people are all but duct taped to the station. ufcw local 1518 has already folded and unequivocally relayed da' message via an inept rep - "there's nothing the union can do". There are a few obvious ways to take the issue on. The reflex is to demand fairness/reasonableness and fight the asshole at his level. Another might be to secure medical support. A more fun (and effective) approach might be to organize watering hole line-ups - people from all departments - all day - everyday? I'm still in "reflex" mode so if anyone has some fine ideas wanna' spit them out. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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SFway	Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 2:41 am
Joined: 26 May 2006 Posts: 567	Hey, Siggy !! A couple of things but any rule against water in the checkstands is, to put it bluntly, really effing stupid. They want you to speak with the customers...you get dry-mouth, you need water. Things to do... (1) confirm with corporate that this is company policy and not just some jerkoff store manager (2) in California, companies have to provide a source of drinking water on the job site; if true under Canada law, enforce it (3) California law mandates breaks to relieve the inevitable physical relief one needs, this apart from rest breaks; if true in Canada, enforce it. (4) start enforcing other rules/regs/laws vs this store manager, e.g. health department stuff, etc. (5) grab bottles of water from customer's 24-packs, asking them if you can have one to chug since your store manager will not allow you to have water in the checkstand...then have them complain to manager, write letters, etc. Organize customers to help with this. Find out what the rules are...then slam the SOB with his own trash.
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Elvis	Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:15 am
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 642 Location: Toronto	Am I the only person that thought of sabotage? I come from the food industry and it's impossible for a manager to know what the hell he is and isn't permitted to do anyway. Attack him where it hurts. Single use cups cost money... and they can run out quickly. Quote: Potable Water 9.26 Where a portable storage container for drinking water is used, (a) the container shall be securely covered and closed; (b) the container shall be used only for the purpose of storing potable water; (c) the container shall not be stored in a toilet room; and (d) the water shall be drawn from the container by (i) a tap, (ii) a ladle used only for the purpose of drawing water from the container, or (iii) any other means that precludes the contamination of the water. 9.27 Except where drinking water is supplied by a drinking fountain, sanitary single-use drinking cups shall be provided. Health Canada Don't you love interpretation? I need about 35 cups to cover my daily single-uses. How many employees are there? Make sure that the manager forgot to order the next batch (which will happen) before you use that health inspector's number that you're keeping handy. Let your union reps deal with the grievance. It'll be loads of fun! _________________ Henri Ducard: Your compassion is a weakness your enemies will not share. Bruce Wayne: That's why it's so important. It separates us from them.
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The Third Element	Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 6:06 am
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 331	Worksafe BC wrote: Employers are required to provide an adequate supply of cool drinking water close to the work area for workers exposed to heat. Suitable drinks include tap water, mineral water, and fruit juices. Fluids do not need to be iced; cooled drinks between 10°C–15°C are adequate. Fluids that contain caffeine or alcohol are not suitable because they increase dehydration. Eating fresh fruits will also help to replace lost fluids. Granted it says "for workers exposed to heat" http://www.worksafebc.com/publications/high_resolution_publications/assets/pdf/bk30.pdf It's frickin' huge PDF +3.5 Meg, but it is all I could find in WCB, Work Smart, Labour Standards (yes some of them do still apply in unionized environs)... I had thought this would have been a well chewed topic... apparently not. _________________ No Beast so fierce knows but some small amount of pity, but I know none and so I am no beast. ~ Richard III
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Laboryes	Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:09 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1677	Quote: They want you to speak with the customers...you get dry-mouth, you need water. A busy day...lots of customers...need more water to wet the drying mouth so you can communicate with the customer and after waiting in line(great idea by the way) to get your ample amounts of water...Ooops! Mr. Manager I got to pee now!!! More water... more waiting in line...more peeing and before you know it your days over! Bye Mr. Manager my shift is over. Not much productivity that day! Repeat the later everyday and Mr. Managers sales begin to drop! Oh my! Ooops! there goes Mr. Managers bonus! Bye! Bye! Sure would have been eaiser just to let those pesky workers keep water bottles in their work areas _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn
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SharynS	Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 10:59 am
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2533 Location: the 'puter	Oh you(se) guys are good! I have a dream. I see up to code water stations in 'close proximity' to a few departments already. I'm a little pissed and worksafe bc might be too. One would think the employer would provide the alternative to personal water use prior to restricting it, not? I'll let you all know how it turns out. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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Laboryes	Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 11:41 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1677	Hey Sig One other thought! Why don't you give us your managers name and the number to your store and a few hundred of us could call him during business hours and tell him what we think of his water policy? We can have that fucktard running to the phone every few minutes! Just a thought _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn
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wm pasz	Posted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 3:44 pm
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1180 Location: Toronto	OK people, who's up for a little creative rebellion? A couple of straightforward projects: 1) Make up a small poster sort of like the one that was used in the Hands Off Our Hair campaign. This was a collaborative project that was put together in what seemed like a few hours by a few people tossing ideas around on email (we could even toss ideas around in a forum thread if you'd like). All you really need to do is come up with a simple but effective slogan and a graphic that supports the message (water, water everywhere but...or something along those lines). Once it's done, put them on cars in the parking lot of the offending stores. Fold them neatly and stick them in the drivers' side windows of as many cars as possible. (Do not put them under the wipers as you may damage the wipers and piss your intended audience off royally.) Also, be environmentally friendly: Put a note at the bottom of the poster urging the recipient to, "Please don't litter. Take this notice to the store manager and tell him/her what you think of the no-water policy or pass it along to family members, friends and other Save-On customers who may be interested in this issue." To avoid detection, either dress in disguise or have a supportive friend do the parking lot distribution so you don't get recognized. Start at the back of the parking lot and work your way forward. It will take longer for you to be spotted (if you are spotted at all) and so you'll be able to do more cars before beating a retreat. Even if you get caught, there's no law against what you're doing. It seems to go on a lot. Any manager who makes a big deal out of it will just be drawing attention to the posters anyway and that's not a bad thing. (If you're ordered off the property though, you should leave so as to avoid trespassing charges. You can always come back at a later date though. Find out from the staff what time of day the management is usually cooped up in the office and try to do your campaigning during those hours. As fall approaches, you will have the additional advantage of being able to leaflet under cover of darkness.) Send an electronic copy of the notice to Save On headquarters so the executives can feast their eyes and poop their pants. Post an electronic copy on as many Internet sites as you can think of. Leave paper copies at other locations in your community (especially places that have some connection to "water" - swimming pools, community centers, local watering holes, etc.) 2) Produce a short video documentary about the problem and post it on youtube and post links on all your favourite web sites. You don't have to identify yourself or any of the people who work at the stores. Be creative - change your voice (or use the nice British sounding voice on www.scribd.com). Include a couple of interviews with the people affected by the policy but have their faces blacked out and their voices altered so that they can't be identified. _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X
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