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| SharynS |
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 5:07 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
John Pilger - The War On Democracy - (1 - 10)
Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5 Part 6 Part 7 Part 8 Part 9 Part 10 For your reading pleasure: Pirates of the Caribbean. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie Last edited by SharynS on Wed Sep 12, 2007 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 9:41 pm
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: John Pilger Pilger reminds me of the late English actor Richard Harris. And Castro with a halo? Oi. |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:30 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Quote: Pilger reminds me of the late English actor Richard Harris. And Castro with a halo? Oi. Did you watch the documentary Mull? Can you dispute the information? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:39 pm
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: Did you watch the documentary Mull? I watched the first one and realized that Pilger reminds me of the late English actor Richard Harris. |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 10:46 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Care to dispute the information provided by the documentary Mull or would you prefer to distract away from it for now and concentrate on boxing up it's producer?  
_________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Sun Sep 09, 2007 11:22 pm
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: …boxing up it's producer? Usually I start with the producer. Then the director. (Sigh) I’m not sure that there’s enough time in life to watch all of that, Sig. Actually I was just going to watch some stuff by Ingmar Bergman who made such masterpieces as “The Silence,” and “Persona” back in the ‘60s. Modern movies can’t hold a candle to… . OK, you twisted my arm. But later, after Bergman. Carry on. Harris was Irish not English. |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 1:42 am
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Ah yes, let there be fiction!
Point for you Mull! Now that the who reminds who of who mystery is out of the way, the next point belongs to pilger me thinks. Oh and just so you know, the other guy is georgie gorgie just trying to be one of the guys, trying to fit in. You can tell that's not a real halo, far too yellow. Looks more like the sun shining through his head eh. but georgie gorgie believes it is - his buddies told him. The film is a mere 90 minutes plus Mull. When the going gets tough simply push the stop button, breath, take another sip of courage and have back at'er. Don't forget to come back and tell us it ain't so, we'll be waiting on you. 
_________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 6:04 pm
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: …we'll be waiting on you Right. I know you will be. Someone has to bear the burden of truth in these parts. Quote: …take another sip of courage I’m sure you meant that in a figurative sense, Sig -didn’t you? I’ll skip the Leni Riefenstahl style beginning of Pilger’s Part I and go on to the second part, which has more substance to it. Riefenstahl was, of course, Hitler’s film producer for the 1935 classic: Triumph of the Will. If you haven’t seen this, you really should hasten to do so. The comparisons are unavoidable. Most video outlets have TotW these days. It is textbook quality propaganda of the first order. In part II, Pilger asks of Chavez: Quote: Why is it, in Venezuela, which earns so many billions of dollars in oil money that there still is this poverty in spite of all this change To which Chavez answers: Quote: I always say that we don’t want to be rich; our aim is not material wealth. It is to live with dignity, of course, to come out of poverty and to come out of extreme poverty, above all. And to live with dignity. This is the objective. So Chavez’s objective for the people of Venezuela is to live, not with the benefit of billions of funds that come in from all of those nasty imperialistic countries around the world, but with –dignity? What he’s saying, of course, is that the people of Venezuela will be stuck with socialism, while his government uses the incoming billions to create a totalitarian alliance in South America headed by Chavez himself -no doubt. Dictators are all alike: Hitler wanted to be seen as Perceval, Mao wanted to be seen as the ‘Great Leader,’ Stalin wanted to be seen as a rottensombitch, and Chavez wants to be seen as the new Simon Bolivar. The connections to massively inflated egos are obvious. Along with their helping of dignity (moving along in Part II) the folks will get to experience the pleasures of waiting in clinic lines to get medical help from mediocre doctors who have no competition that keeps them up to speed. That will be better than no doctor at all, but there is a lot to like about the good ol’ capitalistic competition that constantly improves medical care -among other things. The socialist government will provide subsidies that will make welfare addicts of the poor, tying them forever to the socialist elite. Today’s hopeful welfare will dissolve into tomorrows mindless, soulless bureaucracy –as it has elsewhere. Socialism destroys personal initiative, robs people of their own resources, and makes slaves of the unaware and the foolish. Pilger brings up the subject of barrios in Venezuela: I’m guessing that with all of those billions Venezuela has coming in, the barrios will be bulldozed and public housing will be set up. Public housing in the US has been proven to be ineffective over the years. It breeds crime and resentment. Folks who have no investment in capital property in Venezuela will have no more regard for government projects than others have had for similar projects in the US. It’s more likely that Chavez is squandering Venezuela’s wealth on his own aggrandizement. Why would you build a welfare state with your billions when you could build an national infrastructure, promote tourism, build factories, businesses. What’s so bad about putting people to work? I though we were concerned with working people here on Uncharted. The interview with John Vink and the montage of news reports at the end of Part II is instructive for those who know what they’re looking at. In Marxist terms Vink and his wife are part of the bourgeois –that is those who are part of the middle class, those who have businesses, those who are professionals, or do other than receive welfare or punch a clock for someone else. Socialist the world over hate these people, and Vink knows it. He and his wife are strongly considering leaving their family home in Venezuela. Vink himself has a good sense of historical perspective. He knows what’s coming. What’s important here is that all socialist (collectivist) dictators eventually rid themselves of the middle class by various means. Middle class members are usually given a grace period in which they can leave the country. Later they are likely rounded up and expelled, or jailed, or worse. Dictators can’t afford to have a middle class in the country because they are the thinkers and the doers of society. It is much easier to deal with poor, ignorant people who have nothing to lose than to go along with the socialist regime in question. Chavez is counting on that to advance his agenda. |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Mon Sep 10, 2007 11:50 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Mull that's some kind of conspiracy theory you got going there. I don't think the documentary is at all that complicated. Perhaps if you simply compare the opposing "agendas" a light would come on.
_________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:43 pm
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: I don't think the documentary is at all that complicated. That’s because you’ve neither analyzed Pilger’s message nor discerned the implications of his presentation. What do you get from it? Why did you post it? _________________ The snow is gone. |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 9:58 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Quote: That’s because you’ve neither analyzed Pilger’s message nor discerned the implications of his presentation. Quote: What do you get from it? Quote: Why did you post it? We (the west) need to look at ourselves in the mirror. Are we retaliators or aggressors - which is it? What exactly are we protecting ourselves against? Are the deaths and destruction worth it? Worth what? Who's winning, who's losing? How would we know when or if we "win"? Do we know what it's about? No-one's asking you to change sides or change your mind Mull, but I really don't know how anyone makes it through a day without thinking - hey there's something very wrong with the whole picture. Don't you want to know what that is Mull? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| The Third Element |
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 3:56 am
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Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 368 |
Where the hell is part 2??
You can see it to the side when viewing Part #1 Here is a website about the Venezuelan Constitution. http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1003 _________________ No Beast so fierce knows but some small amount of pity, but I know none and so I am no beast. ~ Richard III |
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| The Third Element |
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:29 am
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Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 368 |
Well, only on Part 9 an it's bed time. Interesting, but not all new stuff.
I did like the constant referral to the US as the "American Empire". Can anyone smarter than me tell me what this phrase means? "It was a post-hawk agro-proctor-hawk fallacy" It is described as meaning, "just because we paid them money doesn't mean they would not have done it without the money" _________________ No Beast so fierce knows but some small amount of pity, but I know none and so I am no beast. ~ Richard III |
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| atuuschaaw |
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 7:51 am
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 781 Location: an ahwangan |
Quote: We (the west) need to look at ourselves in the mirror. Are we retaliators or aggressors - which is it? What exactly are we protecting ourselves against? Are the deaths and destruction worth it? Worth what? Who's winning, who's losing? How would we know when or if we "win"? Do we know what it's about? Being able to look in the mirror and actually see past the cosmetics requires some degree of free thinking...an 'unattached' look inward. Apparently, we aren't all meant to have that ability, or it comes upon each of us at different times and in varying degrees! All I know is...the number of people who had this 'unattached' mindset was once very few and now there are millions! Perhaps it's an evolutionary process that we have no control over. And I'm thinking maybe that's a good thing given the power of sustainability provided through natural evolutionary processes, even though it seems to be exasperatingly slow! But of course, the advocates of "Intelligent Design" will tell us how lost, hopeless, and immoral we are for believing that there could be anything such as "Natural Selection"! I suppose time will be the ultimate judge of these things! From my point of view, many of our people once looked in the mirror and saw only what they were expected to see...what they were taught to see. We had a magical mirror not unlike the one made famous in Grimm's story of Snow White. What a wonderful mirror it was! Always reflecting perfection and beauty! We were perfect...a social order which the entire globe would want to emulate! Such a great mirror and when we gazed into it, we were absolutely beautiful! But something happened to our magical mirror or something began happening to the people who once relied on the mirror for their validation of beauty! The reflection in the looking glass didn't show the perfection and beauty it once had. When the people voiced their concerns about the condition of our reflection, they were told that the problem was in the way they were looking, their vision had become skewed and there was nothing wrong with the mirror! But people didn't buy the explanation given them by the polishers of the mirror and they began to gather and discuss the different things they had each seen when they gazed into the mirror. And it became apparent to these people that the reflectivity of their mirror was forever altered, and the silvering was wearing thin and the cherished mirror was becoming transparent. And behind the silvery polished glass there was much ugliness which was hard to look upon! Gypsy Joe Hess, an old prospector, horse trader, and self-educated philosopher once said, "Everything Americans think they know, they learned from a televised morality play. It’s all theater. You root for some good guy and boo some bad guy. You pick your own, but you dance to the tune of the men running the show. It’s mind control, pure and simple, and if there is an American immune to it, then he is probably living in a snow cave somewhere in Alaska." I think there are millions of us who have, figuratively speaking, moved into that snow cave of which Hess mentions. But a quick look around and it's very apparent we have a long way to go before the mirror completely shatters. Yep, it's exasperatingly slow! _________________ "Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." George Orwell |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
None of it's new to some, some of it's new to others and all of it's new to many. That's the fun part of sharing.
thanks for the heads up 3E, part 2 was there the entire time - masked by a small html typo - oOps. Quote: And behind the silvery polished glass there was much ugliness which was hard to look upon! _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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