Home
Forums
Your Union
You don't know the power you have...I'd like to help
Forums
Your Union
You don't know the power you have...I'd like to help
You don't know the power you have...I'd like to help
| page: prev 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 next | |
| Author | Message |
|---|---|
| SharynS |
|
|
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Greg what I hear you saying is *don't question, have faith and follow and the details can be worked out after* - how close am I?
On an earlier note; Don't laugh, I asked my local for a copy of the membership list. I just thought what the hell, why not? And all the better if ufcw 1518 explains it. Yep said please, I did so. The explanation; Quote: Thank you for your email. I apologize for the delay in responding.
I have been advised by legal counsel that the Union would be in violation of provincial and federal Privacy Legislation by providing anyone, without a Court Order, the names or identifying information of our members. Therefore I must respectfully decline your request. Tom Cameron-Fawkes Director Quote: (B) No member may be disciplined, except for violating his or her duties and obligations by committing any one or more of the following offenses:...
...9. Furnishing a complete or partial list of the membership of the International Union or of any Local Union to any person other than those whose governmental position or International or Local Union office or employee benefit fund position entitles them to have a list, without specific authorization in writing from the International President; Given that Tom can't always remember what he's said from one day to the next, I may try again in a month or so. Thanks for responding Tom _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail :: www |
| loonietunes |
|
|
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210 |
siggy wrote: Greg what I hear you saying is *don't question, have faith and follow and the details can be worked out after* - how close am I?
On an earlier note; Don't laugh, I asked my local for a copy of the membership list. I just thought what the hell, why not? And all the better if ufcw 1518 explains it. Yep said please, I did so. The explanation; Quote: Thank you for your email. I apologize for the delay in responding.
I have been advised by legal counsel that the Union would be in violation of provincial and federal Privacy Legislation by providing anyone, without a Court Order, the names or identifying information of our members. Therefore I must respectfully decline your request. Tom Cameron-Fawkes Director Quote: (B) No member may be disciplined, except for violating his or her duties and obligations by committing any one or more of the following offenses:...
...9. Furnishing a complete or partial list of the membership of the International Union or of any Local Union to any person other than those whose governmental position or International or Local Union office or employee benefit fund position entitles them to have a list, without specific authorization in writing from the International President; Given that Tom can't always remember what he's said from one day to the next, I may try again in a month or so. Thanks for responding Tom Siggy- -I don't know how things work in Canada during Political Election Campaigns---but here in the States and in California in particular-- these union membership lists are freely made available to the various campaign volunteers of Local Congressman Senators Mayors- etc. These folks use these lists as part of the telephone banks--that are set up--usually in the Local Union Offices--but many times the lists are taken to other central locations--where the telephone calls are made. LT |
| Back to top | profile :: pm |
| SharynS |
|
|
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Well Lt, according to ufcw 1518's "Director" - providing a membership list without a "court order" - would be against the law.
The membership list is frequently provided to survey companies, which I'm sure the local would argue falls within the "specific authorization" constitutional rule. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail :: www |
| Gregory Hall |
|
|
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 25 |
Great job asking. I've never heard quite that response before. Wonder why they called their lawyer? You either have some pretty nervous, or pretty inept, folks representing and bargaining for you.
Okay, so we do it the long way. When you're ready email me and we'll go over the easiest methods. It's not the shortest process anyway, but there are definitely some things to avoid making it longer. Fantastic siggy for posting the effort. Anyone else that reads this will learn that they won't arrest you for asking. Will they humiliate you by treating you like a 3rd party trespasser in your own union? Yes, but no harm comes form asking. I would love to hear the reasons they come up with. It'll be tough to beat siggy's. Anyone else that is ready to get started email me and let me know. The truth always, organizers call this a test. If you'll take the first step and reach out personally then maybe you're ready to take the next one. I'll tell you again folks, there is nothing about this that's easy. There is some scary feeling stuff ahead like talking to complete strangers, even on the phone, and telling them that you are trying to make some changes and you'd like to ask them a couple of questions like, "What would you like to change about your union?" I want to talk to all of you because the common answer to that question is..."I don't know enough about the union to change anything." There are other questions you'll ask to help them understand what you're doing. siggy, again, nice job. I know you'll laugh at that but you were one of the few that was brave enough to ask. That's good because it helps all of us feel stronger. Nothing happened to you... I look forward to our conversations. Greg Hall www.greghallshow.com |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail |
| SharynS |
|
|
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
The answer is; - nervous and inept. Quote: When asked, be willing always to do everything you can do. You can no longer separate fights around the nation, or the world. Now, you can be a united effort, in your locals, regionally, and around the world. Don't be afraid of it...embrace it. For everyone that reads this, your first directive is to help when asked. Then get ready to start a campaign and ask for help. For now, be ready to help. If you can't do that then, yes, union reform is over. Quote: Greg what I hear you saying is *don't question, have faith and follow and the details can be worked out after* - how close am I? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail :: www |
| loonietunes |
|
|
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210 |
siggy wrote: The membership list is frequently provided to survey companies, which I'm sure the local would argue falls within the "specific authorization" constitutional rule. Siggy-- Funny--The UFCW will always find a way to justify giving others the union members private information--when it serves the best interest of the Leadership-- In Southern California--Member mailing Lists--are often given to medical providers and other folks that the Union Leaders do business with-for their mass mailings-- Oh God--do I dare say it-----are some of these UFCW Leaders getting "Kick Backs" from some of these providers?? Just asking-- LT |
| Back to top | profile :: pm |
| Elvis |
|
|
Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 661 Location: Toronto |
_________________ Henri Ducard: Your compassion is a weakness your enemies will not share. Bruce Wayne: That's why it's so important. It separates us from them. |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail :: www |
| SharynS |
|
|
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
I just sent this off to Mr. Fawkes. Quote: Mr. Fawkes,
Thank-you for responding. Can you tell me, on what authority did UFCW Local 1518 provide my personal information to the recent, June 06, Wilson Center poll? Thank-you in advance. IS Sharyn (siggy) Sigurdur Administrator http://www.uncharted.ca/ For example if I wanted to contact the membership I would deliver my leaflets or flyers, or whatever, to the service and it would distribute them to the specified list. I think the cost was comparable to regular post. I can't remember exactly, but after we figured out how much to reach 30 thousand 1518 members during the last election, we quickly grasped that it was beyond our budget. ed = that's friggin' funny E! _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail :: www |
| Gregory Hall |
|
|
Joined: 29 Jul 2006 Posts: 25 |
What is the truth? Union members are skeptical, almost cynical, folks? Sure, you've been lied to enough. Why trust anyone?
What are my motives? I suppose I could just be pumping the show, except there is no way for me to profift from it taking this stand. The unions arethe only ones wth any money, your money, and I don't think they'll embrace this. My manner of speaking, I guess wiritng to, is...aggressive and demanding. I apologize...how could I speak to you to get you to do something? Did you think I expected gung-ho member participation? I told you from the beginning what is needed are folks willing to step out. Again, we can talk about reforming unions or we can organize and act on it. If no one steps out then the experiment ends, at least with you all. A lot of folks talk. Hundreds of thousands of them. If you don't want to do what I'm telling you, DO SOMETHING. You know what your union leaders think of you. At least I hope you do. Follow something, somewhere. Or better yet, lead. I heard a great line a movie once, "When you are older no one will want to hear your rhetoric, they will want to know if you have a plan." I always liked that. In the internet world it may not work. I'm thinking it's looking interesting right now. I'll write up my ideas and email them to you if you'd like. Then you put them, or whatever version you like, into some kind of action that is actually going to make a difference. Or for God's sake, be quiet. You make them laugh harder at your futility. "Don't mourn, organize." Sorry for the typos, I didn't edit this one. Greg Hall |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail |
| rogead |
|
|
Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 412 |
Quote: What are my motives? I suppose I could just be pumping the show, except there is no way for me to profift from it taking this stand. At this point, I suspect your motives are egotistical in nature. If you have the organizing background you claim, you certainly know that the worst mistake that can be made in any organizing campaign is to ‘act” too quickly, that is, to “act” before you plan. Any legitimate reform campaign will require a tremendous amount of strategic planning. Anyone claiming otherwise is either living in a utopian fantasy-world or is looking to disrupt the ultimate goal of the campaign. Quote: My manner of speaking, I guess wiritng to, is...aggressive and demanding. You’re method of writing is not aggressive and demanding—those are often good traits which can inspire. You’re style is arrogant and condescending—those are always bad characteristics which virtually always irritate and offend others. Quote: A lot of folks talk. Hundreds of thousands of them. If you don't want to do what I'm telling you, DO SOMETHING. Recognize that you do not possess knowledge that is not routinely discussed in these forums. Nor do you have the right to assume that others aren’t “organizing” and “acting”. Quote: ...Or for God's sake, be quiet. reflect on that! |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: www |
| mun-key |
|
|
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 5 Location: Pacific NW |
Wow. So much here to read. I am new but have several things I would like to add if I may...
1) So many of you are so good at articulating your thoughts! I feel there is much I can learn here. WM Pasz, you are a fantastic writer! Thank you for verbalizing the thoughts of so many. 2) Member lists. Where I am, there was no policy in my union about membership lists. However, when one was requested by a District Director on the Board of Directors (she actually wanted to call and talk to members about what they want! Ack!), our union administration created a policy specifically prohibiting District Directors from obtaining the lists. I have a copy of the policy they created and would be happy to post if anyone is interested in more institutionalized union dribble. I could go on and on but since I am new, I think I will keep it short. 3)Greg, I am confused about the plan. How does this plan to organize work when applied to individual unions internationally? What are we organizing for? How does this plan help me get a better contract? Feed my kids? Keep my medical benefits? If I read correctly, reform movements dont have a plan... They are fluid. Your plan sounds fantastic as an organizing plan within a union that is not forced. However, can you explain more to me here on how it works in forced unions where the administration can tell you to take a flying leap and openly defy members? Can u tell me how it would work in unifying international locals? Would this be a new version of the AFL-CIO? 4) Greg, calm down. Just a suggestion but demanding people do something u want them to do, judging them for not doing what u see fit or assuming they are doing nothing is, well, it puts people off. From what i have read, there are many long term activist, etc here. Let's just step back & take a breath. No one needs to be tested or deemed worthy. If we are all really interested in reform, we can work together. Maybe we could start that by getting to know one another. Just a thought. As I said, I am new... |
| Back to top | profile :: pm |
| Pearson |
|
|
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ |
Those were good thoughts m-k. It seems way more reasonable for an organizer to come on a site and get to know their audience before they praddle on and chastise them for not blindly following his lead.
I was fascinated by Greg's comments on how wm p's members were going to be better for her decision to visit his program. Not a clue brother Greg, not even close to understanding are you? Thanks to rogead for his fine work in ever so kindly sticking a fork in the balloon and popping it as well. As i read Greg's chastisement of siggy i couldn't help wonder what planet he came from. Do you know what the mfd folks have been through? Done? Nope, didn't think so. The first step anyone who wants to put a collective face on anything should take is to come to understand what or who the people or group is. That simple Greg, begin at the beginning. You may have the greatest thing since sliced bread, but if you try and shove it down a persons throat without ever taking it out of the wrapper, you'll choke the poor schlepp before they die of hunger. I will say, you guys all showed far more compassion and tolerance than in the past. Are we growing older? Mellowing? God, next thing you know we'll be doing reviews of Oprah and Dr. Phil and sharing recipes. Peace _________________ If we don't do it, who will? |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail |
| SharynS |
|
|
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2940 Location: the 'puter |
Quote: Or for God's sake, be quiet. Greg FYI - the internet is not what people do - it's where people talk about what they do, what's being done to them and what they're gonna do about it - the 5w's of reform - capisci? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail :: www |
| atuuschaaw |
|
|
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 781 Location: an ahwangan |
Damn Greg, from what I just read, it looks like you just stepped on your dick again! I know you're probably really proud of the size of your unit, but you really need to restrain that thing man. Or for Gawd's sake, until you are familiar with the history of the people here, be quiet! _________________ "Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." George Orwell |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail :: www |
| unionnow |
|
|
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 695 Location: Gettin the Hell out of retail |
Quote: Anyone else that is ready to get started email me and let me know. The truth always, organizers call this a test. If you'll take the first step and reach out personally then maybe you're ready to take the next one.
"There is nothing wrong with your television set. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling transmission. If we wish to make it louder, we will bring up the volume. If we wish to make it softer, we will tune it to a whisper. We can reduce the focus to a soft blur, or sharpen it to crystal clarity. We will control the horizontal. We will control the vertical. For the next hour, sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from the inner mind to... The Outer Limits." Quote: I'll tell you again folks, there is nothing about this that's easy. There is some scary feeling stuff ahead like talking to complete strangers, even on the phone, and telling them that you are trying to make some changes and you'd like to ask them a couple of questions like, "What would you like to change about your union?" There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call ... The Twilight Zone. _________________ “The burden against Damascus. ‘Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap. (Isaiah 17:1-2) |
| Back to top | profile :: pm :: e-mail |
Home
Forums
Your Union
You don't know the power you have...I'd like to help
Forums
Your Union
You don't know the power you have...I'd like to help
|
Page 7 of 9
page: prev 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 next |
||