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Shopping Around for An Effective Worker Collective Vehicle
Shopping Around for An Effective Worker Collective Vehicle
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| Plutodog |
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:21 am
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 300 Location: Oregon |
We have a lot of experienced and dedicated advocates for the rights of workers and the in's and out's of organizing, etc., and I've been watching for any real discussion of what must eventually become an obvious discussion to be had.
--If we assume that reforming labor organizations is prerequisite to having the kind of labor power necessary to start turning the tide that now threatens all of us. --Given that we're in danger of at least a generation (if not more) with out-sourcing and in-sourcing to the point where being a union member is of no more value than being among those with the Right To Work For Less. --If we assume that reforming the Biz Union from the local up -- or even somehow from the international down -- is going to be one hell of a huge trick like greased pig wrasslin'. --If we assume this spectacle is all complicated by having a largely disinterested audience of fellow workers who are apathetic or faithless that any instituion can help us collectively any better than they can help themselves individually. 1. What do Uncharted readers and writers know about the IWW, both historically and as it exists today? Is the IWW in any danger of being violently suppressed as it was in it's early history? Does that scare you as far is it being a vehicle for labor reform? 2. Do you think the IWW would be a viable vehicle for all of us to start organizing under, whether we be UFCW or SEIU or Teamster or whatever? What are the pro's and con's? 3. Are any of you unable to even discuss the idea in a positive sense without having to worry about your current union kicking you to the curb? Somehow or other, if we don't want to drag the whole nasty process of seeking justice in the workplace out over decades of greater economic catastrophy and human tragedy, we've got to pull together every one of our possible best tools and strategies. We're no longer (if we ever were) in a situation where only Management is seeking to divide and conquer us. We are in dire need of every uniting influence we can beg, borrow or steal. So if you please, help me understand if the IWW is or could be a part of the solution, and if not, why not? _________________ "I'm not a humanitarian,I'm a hell-raiser" -- Mother Jones |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:37 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter |
I think you're onto something Pd. Concessionary contracts have left the door open for smaller, more focused local actions. Employers could be impacted community by community, location by location without much effort and IWW does that well.
_________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| Laboryes |
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:12 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1967 |
Plutodog,
I contacted some people from the IWW a while back and asked them a shit load of questions about their organization. My thoughts then and still are now if we carried a dual membership what a cluster fuck it would be for both corporate and the UFCW! The IWW is all about "Direct Action"! The UFCW has no intrest in direct action or anything that will fuck with their golf buddies from corporate grocery. The IWW dues I'm told are only $18 a month and thats if you make over $3000 a month thats a far cry from the $46 a month I'm paying now to the UFCW and getting nothing for it! I'm all for checking out the IWW and what they could bring to the grocery worker! Siggy and I had a few talks regarding this topic. I do believe a big percent of current UFCW members would have to organize with them to make a impact though. _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn |
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| wm pasz |
Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:14 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1219 Location: Toronto |
It's worth exploring alliances with any group or organization that can help you towards your goals. The IWW is a stark contrast to the biz unionists. It was actually one of the early unions that really believed in collective action and recognized the problems associated with making alliances with the corporatists.
Some of your members may find their socialist orientation uncomfortable (because socialism has been given such a bad name in the US) but I would encourage people to see past the Pavlovian knee-jerk response to the "s" word. The IWW is saying what a lot of us are thinking: The corporatist economic model is bad for us. They advocate an alternative. You don't have to buy any particular model to collaborate on bigger goals. For sure the IWW's involvement in any efforts by UFCW members to become empowered would scare the crap out of the troughers. It could also lead to some freer thinking and action. _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X |
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| Plutodog |
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:38 am
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 300 Location: Oregon |
See here's the thing:
We are dealing with the biz union interests who understand that we are on their case and while they'd just as soon we go away, they're not overly concerned as long as they think the workers behind us are not actually behind us. If our brothers and sisters are so hopeless that they don't believe in anybody or anything but their own isolated power to keep their individual homes and families together, that's fine with these "leaders". They keep their power and keep taking our dues to feather their current and retirement nests. And if we manage to attract the support of a minority of "hotheads" -- which may be fine union folks who happen to be waiting for a clarion call to respond to but who are still a minority, they don't care...they can outspend us and find some "victory" here or there to keep the rest uninvolved and/or apathetic. So as long as we're largely talking to ourselves on sites like this (regardless of how many rank and file are reading with varying degrees of interest) without building a groundswell of union members ready to take back their organizations, these pigs could in the long run care less. Then there's the history of the IWW -- who big business and government back in their time went after with all the power of law and oligarchy to squelch, abuse, shoot dead, jail and hang...and managed to have enough of the people believing that they were communists and insurgents, anti-american, etc to be able to get away with it and in their place, the current captive unions were recognized and regulated to fill the void and create the illusion of settlement of worker issues... Well they didn't kill off all of the IWW although they killed off their effectiveness for a couple generations. Yet they had some decent ideas, and they had some workable strategies which may be useful to us today. The fear is that their history will be used against anybody that assembles under their banner today in our post-911 world and then we're talking violent repression which we will need to be anticipating and ready to respond to in peaceful solidarity. Lacking that or some other vehicle that will arouse and activate the rank and file who have a dog in this fight whether they realize it or not and whether they think their dog has a chance or not...lacking the ability to involve the rank and file in constantly increasing number, we're jacking each other off as activists without real hope and there will be no turnaround until things really hit the fan, and people are hurting and dying every minute of every day like they are in the middle east right now. So do we want to keep meeting here in cyber space and talking about how bad the other fellers are -- is that the extent of our ability to commit or do we want to go further -- can we go further -- are we able to talk to our fellow workers and build the kind of solidarity in opposition to the corporate wardens who call themselves our union leaders -- and beyond that to the corporates themselves who will no doubt as in the past get the government to intervene on their behalf against us? Sooner or later, the battle will come. How many generations of ourselves and our families are we willing to sacrifice before that confrontation? Ain't nobody giving justice away. Ain't nobody leading us to the promised land. Ain't nobody waking up our brothers and sisters in what's still a relative calm before all hell invitably breaks out from corporate excesses -- unless it's us. Talking together is good to exchange information and encouragement, but for every day that goes by that we aren't talking to the rank and file "silent majority" and finding out what they're thinking and getting them active for reform...well that's one day closer to the horrendous times ahead which is our only alternative to turning the tide now...after things get so much worse for ourselves and those we love ... and likely, I'll be dead then, my grandkids and their kids will be fighting this battle that we should be about winning right now. We do, after all, still have working bodies, functioning minds, and a care for the cause. Lets get busy awakening the rank and file. The other side isn't going to fall dead with a battle or two or six or sixty. Happy ever after isn't going to be in our lifetimes, if ever. Knowing that, we still have a responsibility because we are human and we've got kids and grandkids -- and we've got some time to kill. We have now. We have a responsibility to now. Is the IWW an effective tool, or not? Some locals might be able to start a recert battle with IWW. Others might have the ability to start a parallel organization. None of this works without involving greater and greater numbers of educated rank and file brothers and sisters who are in it for the long haul. Otherwise we're just jacking off with other people's lives. We have now, nothing else is real. _________________ "I'm not a humanitarian,I'm a hell-raiser" -- Mother Jones |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:04 am
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter |
Quote: Yet they had some decent ideas, and they had some workable strategies which may be useful to us today. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| Pearson |
Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:29 pm
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Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ |
Nice post Plutodog; Welcome to Life 101. Sadly this has been the lament from reformers since the movement began. But then why should we be different than anyone else trying to save the world?
Passion and the issues that drive us has always been splintered. We see the problems clearer and know there are better answers: the question always is how do we get to them? I found it invigorating following my election to president to be able to just let loose. As well as we did, i would love to be able to have one of those do-overs. I can tell you i would have been far less structured, far more aggressive, and way more out of the box...and there are those who would say we never were in one. The point here is either you get elected and try and really change it from within or you keep pecking away on the outside. As you noted, the IWW has some great history; but then what? By all means meet with them, but can you be bounced for dual-unionism? I suspect you are right, getting enough folks to follow will be tough. While we may embarrass these greedy bastards with the net, they know we either will burn out and go away, or never reach critical mass. The problem is if we stop, who then holds them accountable? Sorry for all the questions, thankfully most are rhetorical. _________________ If we don't do it, who will? |
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| Laboryes |
Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:27 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1967 |
Quote: While we may embarrass these greedy bastards with the net, they know we either will burn out and go away, or never reach critical mass. The problem is if we stop, who then holds them accountable? BP great question! This is why I feel we all need to start taking a more in your face approach! If things that they(the ufcw brass) are reading here on unchatrted started happening in locals across the US and Canada such as more pickets on union halls,mass leafleting in stores in Canada and the US on the same day,or what ever it takes to get peoples attention! We can type away all day on the net but if all our talk does not turn to action then where are we really going with all this? How hard would it be to put together some kind of action with all the regulars here at uncharted? We did a decent job in our 588 actions on the net and many of us are over a 100 miles apart! Do any of us have the heart and commitment to try and make something like this work or am I just living in a dream world thinking something like this may make a difference or work? _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn |
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| GRUMPY |
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:34 pm
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Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 198 |
We have been at this for a while now, eh ? There is still not enough who give a shit about what happens .
I don't want to hear that word apathy any more . People know what is going on, they are just plain lazy. Some of us have put in long hours to get people to open their eyes.  Few have . I know of many good people that have put a lot of time and $$$ in to this. You know who you are . I wonder if it is all worth it sometimes myself . I guess the only thing I can say is "if it makes you happy, keep on rockin the boat". It is a struggle to keep it up . I look around and think, why am I getting all p.o. and everyone else seems to like the company spankin'.
Ly, how do you go about in your face tactics when you never see their face   ?
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| Laboryes |
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:54 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1967 |
Quote: Ly, how do you go about in your face tactics when you never see their face It's simple Grump you take it to their front door! http://groceryworkers.org/local-588-members-retirees-picket-union-hall-in-merger-protest/ Hey! Did you finish that article yet??? _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn |
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| loonietunes |
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:06 pm
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Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210 |
[quote="Laboryes"] Quote: If things that they(the ufcw brass) are reading here on unchatrted started happening in locals across the US and Canada such as more pickets on union halls,mass leafleting in stores in Canada and the US on the same day,or what ever it takes to get peoples attention! LY-- You hit the nail on the Fucking head! LT |
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| Laboryes |
Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:57 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1967 |
Quote: LY--
You hit the nail on the Fucking head! LT So when do we start organizing a plan to make this happen? And who is in? Time is short for the upcoming concessions...I mean negotiations in So Cal. It's really kinda scary here in the local 588/8 area members once again seem to be taking the same approach as they did the last go around........ Stick your head deep in the sand and live in the constant state of denial thinking the worst won't happen to you! Then when it does spend the next 3 years bitching in the breakrooms about how fucked you got! Then when some dissent comes in and suggest we turn our angry bitching into in your face action the room gets silent! Imagine that someone having the nerve to suggest that we take action to fight for our own futures! 
_________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn |
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| GRUMPY |
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 2:55 pm
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Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 198 |
Hey LY, are you sure that is sand those cowards are sticking their heads in ?
I have not finished my story yet, there is going to be another chapter  .
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| Plutodog |
Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:08 pm
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006 Posts: 300 Location: Oregon |
Hey Grumpy, perhaps you should publish what chapters you got now in case you, um...meet up with an accident... A little insurance, y'know?
_________________ "I'm not a humanitarian,I'm a hell-raiser" -- Mother Jones |
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| loonietunes |
Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 2:15 am
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Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210 |
Laboryes wrote: Quote: LY-- You hit the nail on the Fucking head! LT So when do we start organizing a plan to make this happen? And who is in? I think we first have to all make a strong committment that we will go and expose---- -all of the corruption regardless if the particular corruption is found within the UFCW International Union or if its found in a small Local Union. I believe this is key-- and it is long over due! LT |
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