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Just When You Think It Can’t Get Any Worse…

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Pearson	Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:08 pm
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ	Perhaps, just perhaps the latest strategy for collective bargaining at the UFCW has been unwittingly revealed. Unionnow posted it in the St Louis thread, and then the Change to Win mouthpiece, Andy Stern, couldn’t control his excitement over being able to prattle on at the Brookings Institute. Siggy posted the 97-page program in that same St Louis thread. Staggering, eye-opening, mouth dropping all came to mind as I read his comments. To make matters even more bizarre, they also invited John Matthews from Costco’s Human Resource Department an opportunity to share his thoughts. You almost have to read it to believe it, but the difference in what the labor leader said and what John the corporate guy said is unbelievable. Mind you, Andy Stern is the driving force behind the CTW bunch. His comments should not be taken lightly, and one might ask, is it representative of where the composite group wants to go? Given the reads from around this site and others, I fear it is their master plan. I hope if this is in error Joe Hansen or one of his minions pick up the keyboard and tell us so. Back to the BI debate: The issue was the future of health care in the US and Andy Stern boldly stated employer driven health care is DOA. The changing nature of a world economy just puts our poor corporations in the United States at a horrific disadvantage. He was lamenting how so many had done so much, but now was the time to let them off the hook and create a wholly new system. Great idea, but there is virtually no support of any size or substance to do so. In fact, the trend has simply been to abandon coverage and just let workers fend for themselves. His comments begged the question, moving to what? Sure he had suggestions, but the net value of an idea with no support is equivalent to a fart in church…no one wants to admit they were behind it. Rather than give you my opinions, lets look at some excerpts from his presentation: “That’s designed to deal with all the other economic realities. You can’t apply a 20th Century health care system to a 21st Century economy. And so the fundamental change for me means one, you have to recognize that employer-based health care is ending, it’s dying in front our very eyes. The charts say it there. It will not rebound, I believe, in the next economic upturn in America. It was a good friend. It served America well in the 20th Century. We love it dearly.” “So we’ve got to get rid of the employer based health care system, it’s not going work.” “I mean you should be the ones sitting in the middle of the street screaming, “This employer based health care system is dead. We can’t afford to compete in the global economy with this employer based health care system.” “And so I’m here today to say I think the employer based health care system is dead. I think we need to find a system that’s not built on the back of the government. I’m here to also say I don’t think we need to import Canada or any other system. We’re going to build an American system because we’re Americans and we don’t like anybody else’s system.” I’ll be the first to admit he made some interesting points, and when I take his comments out of context it looks dramatic and stark. That is by design, because I want you to understand the basic point of his presentation. He see’s no future for the employer driven system; which just happens to be one of the basis for workers to join unions, and the primary health care delivery system in the United States. Let’s make this even more interesting by taking some of the comments from Costco’s John Matthews (it should be noted they have been acknowledged as one of the best retail companies in all of North America. They have some unionized stores and warehouses, but many are not): ”The company has been built from the very beginning on a desire to try to grow from within. So we typically bring college kids in early on and work them in part time hours while they’re going to school and classes and many of them stay with us. We have very low turnover rates in the company. Overall it’s about 20%, which is unheard of in retail. For people who have been with us a year or more, turnover is about 7% and I don’t know of any organization in retail that’s coming even close to that.” “We’ve taken a very broad view of compensation from the very beginning. We’ve always wanted to pay wages that were demonstrably better than competition. So we’ve always stepped up and had a good, wheat we felt is a good wage package. And in fact a cashier working for us on a full time basis at the end of four years is making about $40,000.00. So it’s fairly competitive. We also try to do the same thing with health care and today about 86-87% of the employees are covered. Those who are not covered are simply in the waiting elimination period as new hires coming through. More significantly, within that model, 97% of the people who are eligible for health care accept health care and take it within the organization.” “I don’t agree that employers are out of this business I think we have a very significant role to play.” Say what? We have a union leader telling is to get out of employer paid health care and a corporate executive telling us it is the right place for employers to be; the right thing for them to do. Hellfire and damnation what is going on around here? These roles are reversed and you have to begin to wonder why. The answer is simple: Unions have lost their clout, they don’t have the ability to maintain the great benefit structures they had and are left to pander on behalf of the poor employers so they can become more competitive. It is a pathetically weak admittance of their failures. What is so revealing in this presentation is, it appears the goal is to let employers off the hook. It appears as if Mr. Stern (and others in the CTW?) may have adopted this as a strategy for the future. If labor leaders only care about wages and contract language, employers may well be willing to tolerate their existence for a few more years. I know their hope is that by letting the delivery system collapse, there will be pressure from the bottom up, but is that realistic? Here is my fear: Three years ago after the settlements in California several of us proclaimed the impending death of the UFCW benefit plans. It wasn't because we had crystal balls, it is simply economics. When employers were allowed to strip new employees out of the trust, costs were going to increase dramatically. Anyone who has worked with trust funds know they need new workers, those less likely to use them. It was obvious at the time the employers were willing to take them apart piecemeal. With the next round of talks coming, and the UFCW refusing co-ordinated bargaining or national strategies, what is the hope of regaining any of the concessions from last time? The answer is simple...ZERO. If in fact this is their solution, their strategy, it could impact every existing UFCW member who is fortunate enough to have benefits now. I don't know if it is right or wrong, but i do know every UFCW member has the right to know, to decide if this is the course they should be taking. We can only hope i am wrong, but there are so many indicators, i have a sense of dread there is little good that will come to UFCW members in the next 24 months. _________________ If we don't do it, who will?
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unionnow	Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:06 pm
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 695 Location: Gettin the Hell out of retail	Quote: We can only hope i am wrong, but there are so many indicators, i have a sense of dread there is little good that will come to UFCW members in the next 24 months. From what I am hearing the Southern California union presidents are feeling that sense of dread. They are real eager to bring in some more money but not to eager to cut salaries and expenses. The know the companies can have just about whatever they want and that are going to use them, abuse them and pass them around like a cheap crack hore. When they are finished with them the presidents will say that they had a great time, they won and all that other blarney _________________ “The burden against Damascus. ‘Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap. (Isaiah 17:1-2)
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loonietunes	Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:22 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	UNIONNOW-- The problem is that these--"Crack Whores" are and have been fucking with everyone's life----which makes them 10 times worst than the average "Crack Whore"--who generally just fucks up their own and those closest to them! I say let's keep consentrating on putting these -- Mother Fucking-- --Ethically Challanged-- Fucking bastards---away-- --once and for all--so they can't ever hurt anyone ever again! LT
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Jeff-Hulk-Hemp	Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 7:29 pm
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 448	Well I do admit Chicago (Dominicks)only had slight chanages in the union contract .Bill I know you really respect Ken Boyd .
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SharynS	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:18 am
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	"the world is flat!" - proclaimed Andy Stern, to boys at the brookings I. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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Laboryes	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:10 am
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1967	Quote: If labor leaders only care about wages and contract language, employers may well be willing to tolerate their existence for a few more years. Contract language!!!! Let me compose myself from the laughing! First off these ass clowns at 588 don't and won't enforse the contract language we have now! FREE TIMING- out of control! Not a rep to be seen! BAGGERS IN THE CHECKSTAND- anytime management sees fit! Not a rep in sight! GIVING WORKERS WITH LESS SENIORITY MORE HOURS-Who the fuck are you going to call the 588 reps? Ya right! They are to damn busy chasing down and removing all the anti Loveall flyers posted in stores! Here is another thing try filing a grievence. You might be able to get the paper work to do so but that's usually the last you hear of it! And if you are the "in your face" type of person that demands answers you are most likely told "your grievence was deadlocked" Contract language! Give me a fucking break! Who do they think they are going to fool with this crap? _________________ "When people refuse to obey, then democracy comes alive." Howard Zinn
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GRUMPY	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:31 pm
Joined: 19 Feb 2006 Posts: 198	The only language these sorry ass' at 588 know is, I'll get back to you . For close to $100,00 you think they might actually know the contract . For that kind of money, you should be able to buy a bigger set of balls .
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Pearson	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:42 pm
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ	Quote: Well I do admit Chicago (Dominicks)only had slight chanages in the union contract Do tell Jeff, what were those changes? Quote: The only language these sorry ass' at 588 know is, I'll get back to you . For close to $100,00 you think they might actually know the contract . For that kind of money, you should be able to buy a bigger set of balls Couple of things here Grumpy: First off, i always looked for reps having brains rather than balls. Secondly my preference was to have the rep know what they were saying was right rather than just running off an answer without knowing. It is okay to say "i'll get back to you"...as long as they get back to you with an answer that day or the next. You did bring up a point that has long plagued the UFCW. For years reps were offered jobs based on loyalty rather than either brains or balls. It has been one of my pet peeves. Of course at 588 (the new and improved you had a whole different set of issues...family made up for a large portion of the staff. Talk about dysfunctional. _________________ If we don't do it, who will?
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Pearson	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:03 pm
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ	Lemme get back on point. We know we are getting lots of visitors from around the US and some of them may even be a ufcw leader or two. I suspect as they read this thread on Brother Stern's comments they are saying "no way," Joe wouldn't be selling our benefit programs down the river. SAY IT AIN'T SO JOE.Please, put everyones mind at ease and state emphatically the UFCW doesn't buy into Strern's proclamation that employer based health care is dead. When you do that though, we need you to further explain how the plans they have crippled are going to make it. Let's look a little deeper into Brother Stern's crystal ball. Actually, it's quite brilliant. He has been championing the idea of segmenting unions by industry. His union, SEIU, gets health care. Seems reasonable eh? In the US there is a shortage of health care workers. It is the one industry that will see the most growth in the coming years. Just imagine a national health care plan where another 45 million people had coverage tomorrow. Guess who gets the right to organize the new workers needed? Don't get me wrong, national health care of some manner should be a goal. How we get there is critical to the discussion. My concerns are when Andy says employer based is DOA, their is a message to employers they can just dismantle it and the union will somehow get us/you coverage differently. A fools game waiting to happen. Stay tuned gang, i'm dieing to hear what President Hansen has to say about this. _________________ If we don't do it, who will?
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SharynS	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 3:45 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	Quote: Guess who gets the right to organize the new workers needed? You say brilliant I say a fool's fool. The rest of the world is dumping the empire and stern wants to pledge an allegiance to it. His diabolical pipedream would see unregulated private interest billing public coffers - a veritable big biz free for all. What makes it a fools game is that he thinks private interest is then going to come back at a later date and negotiate. With what shall you bring them to the table andy? ufcw and hansen have no plan, they're tagging along with stern because andy said come with me to the empire. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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loonietunes	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:31 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	Siggy-- Great point regarding Andy Stern and the SEIU-Organizing the potential--Thousands of new "Health Care" workers. But Really---if in Fact-- --Uncle Sam-- gives us the Medical Insurance- -And Uncle Sam-- actually starts to strongly enforce the labor codes- -and Uncle Sam-- forces the Employers to pay workers a living wage--- Then the next logical question would be this. WHO NEEDS UNCLE JOE HANSEN and the UFCW? LT
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unionnow	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:56 pm
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 695 Location: Gettin the Hell out of retail	The stupid thing about comments like his is.... How the hell do you outsource retail jobs? People have to live in the country to work retail. Are you telling me people are going to fly to China once a week to buy groceries, toilet paper and dog food? The fools should be about building up the job base in the US that cannot be exported not crying about the end of healthcare because we free traded all our manufacturing jobs away. _________________ “The burden against Damascus. ‘Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap. (Isaiah 17:1-2)
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SharynS	Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:08 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	you got it Lt - to stay alive, business union relies on big business' pilage and rape technique. What's wrong with a universal coverage/single pay as a base program with corporations contributing their fair share? Whether in the form of a surtax or individual employee premium quarantees or whatever, it could (and would) resolve the bulk of the healthcare crisis. Of course none of that is condusive to privitization, profit or big biz or biz U in general. They know that, we know that and unless stern is more senile than he appears, then he and his know that. It's the sticking point to a better system and big money control the sticking points. With a viable labour movement the bulk of funding for a universal program could be put on corporations/employers - which - lest we not forget as has stern - reap the bulk (all) of profits escavating and selling off earth resources, raping communities, all the while giving little if anything back. Employers would like to have their cake and our cake and eat it too and thus far it's working - there's been no mass resistance. I fear stern et al have decided to switch over to the winning side just as the going got tough_er. Andy said it himself; - "it's easier". (That is somewhat out of context, but stern's entire sub_missive to the BI boys reaks of bending over, so no further harm done). _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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SharynS	Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:02 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	andy stern: Quote: At PurpleOcean.org, we’re PO’d. * We’re PO’d at corporations who rack up record profits by taking the low road—squeezing workers and refusing to offer quality, affordable health care. andy stern: Quote: So we’ve got to get rid of the employer based health care system, it’s not going work. And for employers, there’s a good reason why it won’t work,... Which one of these things is not like the other...? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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Jeff-Hulk-Hemp	Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:23 am
Joined: 10 Feb 2006 Posts: 448	Well would things be better if UFCW 588 members try to get rid of the local out there by pulling out of the UFCW ?
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