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2006 Labor Notes conference

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SharynS	Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 1:51 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	Oh gee, I wonder how it went, who went and what came out of it, if anything. Okay kidding. I did attend the conference and it was exactly that - a conference. There were some positive things but my first observation was that overall it made me feel like (and others look like) mainstream wannabes. Think about it - a destination, hundreds of people, a fancy hotel, food, speakers, awards, applause, standing ovations. I'm wondering how we break out if we don't break out? How do new ideas or directions sprout out of old habits? For me - other than meeting up with people I've been communicating with on-line for years - there wasn't anything that couldn't have been accomplished on-line and I'll venture with longer lasting results. ed= this is not intended to take anything away from the hard work the LN people put in. They did a great job organizing a huge conference. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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Pearson	Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:08 pm
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ	Couldn't agree more siggy...definately more of the same, only in a different package. Woulda been far better if all the shitdisturbers who have been part of the package coulda come. The real answer lies in people, not presentations and pomp. Funny as i was reading Fitch's Solidarity For Sale during the conference, i saw the similarities of the new guard trying to emmulate the old guard only different. Then i finished the book and he talked of the old Labor Notes guys who came to power, only to let the power change them. The last chapter, the conclusion says it all. Over the next days i'll be taking excerpt's from it. Best of all would be if we could get Fitch to allow the conclusion to be posted. I know, it takes away from his sales, but someone should invite him to stop by and put in his two cents worth. My guess is we could have people chomping at the bit to buy the book. The future has to be about what should be, not a rehash of what was. All of us tend to be guilty of too much nostalgia, negativism and living in the past. I'll be the first to make my amends; mea culpa. _________________ If we don't do it, who will? Last edited by Pearson on Fri May 12, 2006 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total
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CUPE_Reformer	Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:45 pm
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 241 Location: Real Solidarity	siggy wrote: There were some positive things but my first observation was that overall it made me feel like (and others look like) mainstream wannabes. siggy: Very good points. I did not attend the 2006 Labor Notes conference. In my opinion Labor Notes and in particular the Troublemaker's Handbook is very limited in its criticism of mainstream union leaderships. Mainstream union leaderships in Canada promote Labor Notes. I feel that union reformers should avoid almost all of the labour/union conventions. Union reformers can organize on the Internet until they are strong enough to make differences at labour/union conventions. _________________ Real Solidarity
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SharynS	Posted: Thu May 11, 2006 5:53 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	Couldn't agree more CR. In fact Labor Notes is TDU through and through isn't it? Not a bad thing, but it does fall under the sub heading: been there done that! The sides of the box are clearly visible, right. Gawd did I say that. Two things stick out for me from the conference, as far as what people are looking for or need before this thing can rightfully explode. Those are: 1) a way to cut down on the time commitment involved in on-line communities. Perhaps something which takes the technical onus off individual webmasters (individual sites). Is it possible to have a technical hub with the tech side of webbing under one administration? 2) I also gathered that on-line discussion and information flow has been severely hampered by fear of lawsuits. Is it possible to create a tool to get people past that? Yep both are possible - way. Stay tuned! _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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Pearson	Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 1:57 pm
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ	Quote: In my opinion Labor Notes and in particular the Troublemaker's Handbook is very limited in its criticism of mainstream union leaderships. Mainstream union leaderships in Canada promote Labor Notes. Interesting observation C_R. They do still talk to union leaders types who have ties to the existing structure. They still need market to a niche and lets face it, it is very small and they can't afford not to. The closing session on Sunday had a Canadian labor leader from one of the Postal Unions speaking. She started by saying how disappointed she was by all the negative comments from attendees about their unions. My immediate reaction was to shout back: "how disappointed do you think workers feel about how their unions and their leaders are treating them?" The classic example was from the New York Transit workers local 100. There were several factions from within the union and the infighting was quite intense. The new reformers are calling the old reformers sell outs and the radicals are saying both of the reformer groups ars full of it. Solidarity is the last thing on anyones mind. Fractured factions and silly battles over who's in control have insured we lose. It is time to start creating something better. Let's hope we have the intellectual where-with-all to be better, bigger and smarter than those who have gone before us. _________________ If we don't do it, who will?
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SharynS	Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 2:42 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	Quote: She started by saying how disappointed she was by all the negative comments from attendees about their unions. That tells me control is slipping and the disconnect is huge. It's absolute futility to continue to try to save or put that back together or to believe it will change. Especially when one side of the disconnect (leadership) is clearly uncommitted. Who in their right mind could trust that any change initiated at the top isn't just more of the same. The controllers can go screw themselves! There is no magic fix, it will take absolute years of re-inventing or re-instilling solidarity as a positive means for people. When there's ineffective representation in the workplace, people find alternative solutions. With that comes empowerment, that is where people are. People are figuring it out themselves. At the risk of repeating myself - screw them! They're not leaders they're albatrosses! _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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Kelsey	Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 6:04 pm
Site Admin Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Posts: 133	siggy wrote: Perhaps something which takes the technical onus off individual webmasters (individual sites). Is it possible to have a technical hub with the tech side of webbing under one administration? I think a better idea would be getting more troublemakers interested in and enthusiastic about web technologies. Enthusiasm is key. Technical ability and knowledge is consequential. ... the havoc we could wreak with a team of trouble-geeks. _________________ The PG is your friend.
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CUPE_Reformer	Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 8:02 pm
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 241 Location: Real Solidarity	Pearson wrote: The closing session on Sunday had a Canadian labor leader from one of the Postal Unions speaking. She started by saying how disappointed she was by all the negative comments from attendees about their unions. My immediate reaction was to shout back: "how disappointed do you think workers feel about how their unions and their leaders are treating them?" Fractured factions and silly battles over who's in control have insured we lose. Pearson: Deborah Bourque, National President of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers is quoted on the back of the Troublemaker's Handbook 2. Deborah Bourque probably doesn't hear many negative comments about CUPW. Also factions probably don't exist in CUPW. Quote: CUPW National Constitution - 2005 Article 8 Discipline General Rules Concerning Charges 8.13 ... The National Executive Board, the National Executive Committee... may also lay a charge against a member, an officer or a union representative. CUPW National Constitution - 2005 _________________ Real Solidarity
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unionnow	Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 11:09 pm
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 695 Location: Gettin the Hell out of retail	Quote: Fractured factions and silly battles over who's in control have insured we lose. It is time to start creating something better. Let's hope we have the intellectual where-with-all to be better, bigger and smarter than those who have gone before us. In my experience, when you involve people on the far left you will find that it is impossible to make them happy. That said, their criticism has always been valuable. Their experience in union reform is outstanding and their work ethic is second to none. On the way to creating something better we have to have fractures and factions. Its an election about who controls the resources and direction not a tea party! The leadership is trying to make what is left that is shrinking into bigger units. To make it work you would need flawless coordination and I just don’t see that happening. Without the whole edifice of the UFCW crashing down into a heap of rubble; intellectual, scientific, thoughtful honest reforms are not going to happen. It comes down to people rising up from the ranks to take control, It comes down to horrific battles between entrenched officers and those who want to make the system work better. How do we do it without educated reformers? How do we create that site that has the correct content for the warfare that must take place to replace our officialdom? Recently I communicated with a member from another local that was working towards change. A great sign but he was going about it in a way that would insure their failure. There are so many groups out here in California that are working towards change in a slipshod fashion. How do we find these groups and unite them. How do we organize, recruit and make change? The web is one of the major keystones. Freeform reform does not work. There is a method to the madness. _________________ “The burden against Damascus. ‘Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap. (Isaiah 17:1-2)
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mescallito	Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 12:15 am
Joined: 18 Apr 2006 Posts: 34 Location: a shade tree	Quote: In my experience, when you involve people on the far left you will find that it is impossible to make them happy. Please tell us how to recongnize these unhappy, miserable sunsabeeches!! Don't they know it's all about control?? Stupid bastards!! Quote: It comes down to people rising up from the ranks to take control, It comes down to horrific battles between entrenched officers and those who want to make the system work better. Sort of like the Phoenix? Rising out of the ashes and resurrecting themselves into a more democratic and member oriented organization? Quote: How do we create that site that has the correct content for the warfare that must take place to replace our officialdom? Don't fear! As individuals, we don't have to create anything! The creation will come from us all! It'll come like the night breeze and we won't recognize it until it has already been born and way past the crawling stage of development! It is being created as we type! It won't be about individual leaders engaged in warfare with the officaldom. You won't have to worry about uniting groups. The old way is dead! The old language; the old organizing model; the old structures; the old way of seeing, hearing, and feeling is dying as well and the new is growing. The new way is undescribable but it is as real as life itself! The evolution of creativity is like the growth of a plant. We know it's growing, even though we can't see it grow! The innevitalbe will happen, and we will find ourselves right in the middle of it without any pre-warning. We will find ourselves on the crest of the wave and suddenly realize that we are here and we are moving forward with the least resistance we could have ever imagined! The people here are catalysts whether they know it or not! So, I should say thanks people for your desire for a better place and your unending quest for a real civilization! Just keep doing what you're doing! _________________ Dreaming is the door to the unimaginable!
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SharynS	Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 3:31 am
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	well said mc, as the corrupt system and the american dream are exposed for what they truly are people are coming onto their own. A few years ago I was less optimistic than I am today, I see changes, however slight. There always has to be a beginning - we're there IMO. It's rather ironic but at this point giving up is no longer an option - awesome. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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CUPE_Reformer	Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 4:24 am
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 241 Location: Real Solidarity	unionnow wrote: There are so many groups out here in California that are working towards change in a slipshod fashion. How do we find these groups and unite them. How do we organize, recruit and make change? unionnow: In my opinion studying successful union reform groups is the best way to find answers to your questions. Rebels, Reformers and Racketeers: How insurgents transformed the labor movement _________________ Real Solidarity
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unionnow	Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 7:18 pm
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 695 Location: Gettin the Hell out of retail	I have read some of Bensons stuff and talked to him quite a bit years ago. He reminds me of what he writes about, the solitary union reformer committed to his cause. The creation has to come from us all, slight changes are happening but if thats all we get from UFCW members after what happened in Southern California and whats about to happen up North we are in big trouble. There are groups working in many of the locals but they have no direction, no idea how to accomplish reform, no resources or help from their brothers and sisters in other locals who have the same goals. Some things never change and never will. Other models die as new forms arise. There is nothing new under the sun. It has happened before, others have gone before. Some have succeeded in part, most have failed. Its up to us to identify the new structures and build them. Failing that, there will be business as usual. _________________ “The burden against Damascus. ‘Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap. (Isaiah 17:1-2)
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Matt Noyes	Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 10:15 pm
Joined: 07 Feb 2006 Posts: 28	I'm surprised to find such a grumpy reaction to the Labor Notes conference. I would have thought that fellow uncharted types -- with the focus on grass-roots organizing, relentless critique of business unionism, participatory democracy, etc. would have found themselves among friends and allies. I think the most innovative parts of uncharted, especially its development as an online community, are unfamiliar to most people at Labor Notes, but not something people would be hostile to. I'm curious to know more about which aspects of the conference (beyond the fact of it being a conference in a big hotel) people felt were "in the box" or just more of the same. Were there particular workshops that were that way? Particular speakers? Just Deb Bourque? Were there any elements that were useful? There is a thread beginning at Communicate or Die about the labor tech discussions at Labor Notes, I'll post about that there. _________________ "the practice of democracy in organizing is the organizing of democracy in practice"
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Pearson	Posted: Sat May 13, 2006 11:48 pm
Joined: 03 Feb 2006 Posts: 1417 Location: Sun City AZ	Quote: I'm curious to know more about which aspects of the conference (beyond the fact of it being a conference in a big hotel) people felt were "in the box" or just more of the same. Were there particular workshops that were that way? The workshops were the highlight of the conference Matt, other than there wasn't enough time devoted to some of the topics. The feel of the big room was much like the biz unionists celebration of an agenda ripe with pomp and circumstance. The standing ovations, the over the top promotion of successes, the fund raising and the grandios atmosphere made it look like a poor mans UFCW gathering. I know that sounds overly critical and it isn't meant to be. The fact is, the thing just fits nicely into the box mainstreamers have built. The twist is of course in the materials presented. I think siggy was the first to assess the relative closeness of what the big boys do and how we try and emmulate it. I know she'll jump in, but i think her point was we will never break out of the box if all we are doing is what they do only changing the script. As Fitch points out the tendency is for reformers to become one of "them" after they come to power. The simple fact is, all behavior is learned and sadly most of us are conditioned to just do what others before us have done. I'm not sure i agree with unionnow's assessment that all things have been done before. It's more all traditional things have been done before. I know some of the off the wall stuff we did at 789 was new, in-your-face and very effective. I would have liked to see LN do a session where the goal was to actually walk away with a brave new world kind of focus. I would have liked to have had legitimate discussions about whether there is a better way to hold these kinds of conferences, without the stakeholders thinking we were being critcal. We need create a new energy, not more of the same old stuff, retreaded and ready for the same old road tried before. The internet has enormous potential to do that; to change the dynamic workers are caught in. yet, the pieces of the conference devoted to the net were very limited and poorly attended. I see both AUD and Labor Notes as being critical participants in the promotion of the net and reformer sites. It is clear you understand that (given your project), but i sense Labor Notes sees the net as just one more thing to do in a very busy schedule. Don't get me wrong, my compliments to all those who were there. The event is the single biggest anti-biz union effort going. Just ask yourself, as it sets up, does it look a whole lot different from what the biz unionists do? I know the content is better, the pomp and circumstance far less gagging, but in the end, could we have a whole different feel if we tried to go beyond what they do, and create something wholly different. _________________ If we don't do it, who will?
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