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Why we need to support Obama's Health Care reform

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loonietunes	Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:35 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	gordon wrote: Obama is nowhere close to a progressive leader. He doesn't have the BALLS to take on the profit-lobbying machine Bought-off by the Banksters who put him in office, led by Goldman Sachs- While I voted for Obama based mainly on his idealistic approach to things I have to now concede that much of his historic revolution has turned to dust including his center piece of Health Care Reform. It's a real shame, these golden opportunities only come around once in a great while. Unfortunately, there have been numerous mis steps along the way some his fault and some the fault of those advising him. The biggest let down has been the lack of transparancy and the all out war against making things public and insisting on secrecy. Geezus A Christ....what are they thinking? They are acting like Right Wing Nut Jobs! I suppose it was too good to be true that a young progressive guy who grew up in Chicago politics would actually govern as President in an open and transparent way which after all is not the traditional Chicago way by a long shot. But what is worse, is to now hear young folks who had once supported his uthopian vision actually bad mouth him now. The tragedy here is that we may have lost an entire generation of young folks who will now simply retreat back to their i-pods and video games and never trust again. Meanwhile the rest of our Rights are slowly being taken away. 1984-is here and it sucks big time! _________________ "BE STRONG AND OF GOOD COURAGE"
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SharynS	Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 6:10 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2883 Location: the 'puter	Has the reform bill passed? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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loonietunes	Posted: Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:26 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	True it has not passed as of yet but whatever passes and is signed into law will not remotely come close to the SINGLE PAYER PLAN that is needed to bring real reform and immediate help to the millions that have no medical insurance. Since the Dems will perhaps loose control of both houses of congress in the Fall 2010 Elections the least that should have been done was shove through a Single Payer Gov run Plan while we had the super majority in the senate. So it might have cost $500,000.00 million to buy Nelson's vote instead of the $300,000.00 million but at least we would be getting something good in return for all of those political payoffs. The way things stand now, the progressives are coming out the big loosers in this deal and after the 2010 Elections it will be decades if ever again before the progessives even get this close to having any power again. At least it won't be in our collective life times. I just would have liked to have seen more substancial bang for the mega political capital that was just spent these past few months. That's just my opinion as a concerned US citizen. Where I somewhat disagree with Gordon is that I still believe that Obama is a True believer but he has surrounded himself with a bunch of phonies and the Andy Stern types who would sell their Mother for a nickle if they had a chance. In 2008 the people voted for Change and had Obama stuffed the White House with a bunch of progressives instead of the Chicago Political Machine we would be on the verge of real change right now but instead what has happened is that millions of folks have now been exposed to the corruption we talk about here on UNCHARTED and that in the end will sink the Democrats and that is a real shame and I mean that in a sad way. _________________ "BE STRONG AND OF GOOD COURAGE"
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atuuschaaw	Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:19 pm
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 780 Location: an ahwangan	If by reform you mean...the improvement or amendment of what is wrong, corrupt, unsatisfactory...the answer is no. As LT has noted, the same corporatists, using the same lobbyist techniques, are still in control of the masses. If I have learned one thing over the last ten years while traversing the endless dead end trails of justice, it's that reform is a dead and archaic word that has lost all it's meaning when it comes to change. The focus on any change must target the structure itself. The roots of corruption run too deep and the time when superficial change might patch up the deteriorated structure is way past. It has to be torn down to fix it! Jim Page says it best: ...big money pullin' on invisible strings gettin' into everything so deep, it's hard to believe it's in the food and the water and the air you breath and the chemistry, the bio-tech the banker with the bottomless check the corporations and the CEO's and the bottom line is the profit grows the money talks, you don't talk back they don't like it when you act like that. _________________ "Speaking the truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." George Orwell
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SharynS	Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:10 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2883 Location: the 'puter	Defy the rules, brave the consequences. Who's in? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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loonietunes	Posted: Fri Jan 08, 2010 3:39 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	Quote: Who's in? Perhaps millions of every stripe, color and creed. That is what is so crazy here. In their quest to crush any opposition point of view, the so called defenders of the poor and the oppressed have managed to wake up a sleeping giant----the masses---with pitch forks. In one short year the Washington DC establishment orchastrated by Andy Stearns has managed to put corruption front row center for all of us to see what previousely only a few of us have been discussing here on sites like UNCHARTED. So when you ask who is in? My reply would be at this point, who isn't in? Finally, "Corruption" has made the front pages. It's just too bad it had to be expossed in this manner under Obama's watch. Like I said, I still believe Obama is a true believer but he has been compromised and ill advised by the Andy Stearns of the world. Why on earth would you let a guy like Andy Stearns run the show in the White House when more then half of his own Rank and File union mmembers want to throw him out if given the chance? This has been political suicide of the worst kind and what's worse no one has been able to prevent this train wreck from happening. _________________ "BE STRONG AND OF GOOD COURAGE"
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loonietunes	Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 4:42 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	atuuschaaw wrote: The roots of corruption run too deep and the time when superficial change might patch up the deteriorated structure is way past. It has to be torn down to fix it! So True my good friend! And if we humans don't have the courage and the balls to tear it down and rebuild it then I ask the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth to do it for us. I ask and pray that the Almighty destroy this planet and end this experiment called the human race once and for all. And that goes for all those phony Bible toating idiots in Northern Calfifornia as well Sure lots of innocent folks will go away should the Almighty fullfill my prayers but the bad ones will surely go away as well and in the end that will make me a very happy person indeed: One more wish: I want each and everyone of them to go away before me even if its just by one hundred of a second Long Live Edmond Dantes _________________ "BE STRONG AND OF GOOD COURAGE"
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Mulligan	Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:04 pm
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero	Quote: This has been political suicide of the worst kind and what's worse no one has been able to prevent this train wreck from happening. Unfettered, ‘Progressives’ will always self-destruct. It’s too bad they’ve nearly taken the whole country down the same railway this time. Quote: Edmund Dantes The main character in Dumas’ “The Count of Monte Christo” I think. Quote: Be strong and of good courage. God’s charge to Joshua in “The Book of Joshua” chapter I: vs 6 – 9. Interesting, that combination of thoughts, LT.
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SharynS	Posted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:41 pm
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2883 Location: the 'puter	Quote: Unfettered, ‘Progressives’ will always self-destruct. I know it's exciting for you Mull but you don't think you might be jumping the (Lt) gun a little? _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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unionnow	Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 12:36 am
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 658 Location: Gettin the Hell out of retail	Obama's Health plan forces me to buy insurance from a private company. I would not call that progressive. Its another round of the wolf devouring the sheep. When the private health insurers get in trouble the G will bail them out. At this point in the USA the voters who are in control are the decline to state independent voters who switch their vote from one side to the other depending on whos plan is least disastrous for us. Now they are talking about robbing everyone's 401K accounts and forcing them into T-Bills. An act of desperation of the part of the order couched in their control of the progressive wing just so the can get their other wing, the nut case right wing into power. Its good to take from you to give to someone else. We will pool all the 401 K assets so those that choose not to save can have a retirement as well. Its pure disaster management and its spells trouble; big, big trouble. My congressmen who is very powerful on the hill says its a certainty that they will attempt this soon. Watch the Republicans come back strong and kick ass. Quote: I ask and pray that the Almighty destroy this planet and end this experiment called the human race once and for all. And that goes for all those phony Bible toating idiots in Northern Calfifornia as well The Earths future is in the hands of the human race. The bible thumpers, atheists, scientists, war mongers, banksters, politicians, union bosses, independent and dependent voters and everything in between. We will all go down together tethered to our own miscalculations, mismanagements, personal idiosyncrasies and the like. We will fashion our demise, create a new world order, or watch the world enter some final natural cataclysms of concurrent nuclear war and natural disasters that seem to be predicted in the old and new testaments of the Bible. My bet is on the predictions and not on a happy ending for the New World Order or the rest of us as we watch it come into being. Is it a supreme beings fault or is it our own collective fault? I am not into book burning. Even Mein Kampf had some value to the reader when Hitler wrote it. Its value was to the reader was to get the hell out of the country this nut is going to take us all out. _________________ “The burden against Damascus. ‘Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap. (Isaiah 17:1-2)
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Mulligan	Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 2:32 pm
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero	Quote: When the private health insurers get in trouble the G[overnment] will bail them out. But that fits the Progressive/Socialist/Communist/Stalinist/Liberal template exactly, doesn’t it? The Progressive’s ultimate goal is to have the masses totally dependent upon huge government. We already know that the private health insurers will fail. How can they survive in such an anti-capitalistic atmosphere? Consequently, we’ll be invited to agree that Capitalism has finally collapsed just as Marx said it would. Hence, Big Government will take over health care, turn the administration of it over to the monstrous bureaucracy that is already in place, and we’ll all be standing in line for medical treatment just like we do for our auto tags. Quote: robbing everyone's 401K accounts and forcing them into T-Bills There’s not much new about that, or some variation of -that. Both sides of the political world have something similar in mind as the potential failure of Social Security looms into view. By 2016 the US SS system is predicted to fail, as we know, or ‘run out of money’ as they’ll have it. Then anyone with x.xx amount of savings will be declared ineligible for SS. This is just another brick in the (yellow) brick road to progressive utopia. Whether we’re forced to buy T-Bills, or just refused SS benefits, it’s merely a matter of bureaucratic gerrymandering. Quote: Is it a supreme beings fault or is it our own collective fault? Ours.
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loonietunes	Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 4:11 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	TOTALITARIANISM is the problem not the solution and always has been and we never learn. Extreme power hungry Far left folks like(Stalin) or Extreme power hungry Far right folks like(Hitler) or everyone in between that buys into this power hungry philosophy scheme is doomed to failure. The difference now is that society has reached the final stages and breaking point of this age old struggle for control over the masses. We are seeing this historical nightmare between these two power hungry forces play out before our very eyes. Sort of like Clash of the Titans. I think how and when it will all end is anyone's guess other than to say that I believe that the end is not to very far away Since the creator saw fit to give humans "Free Will" I guess it will be up to us when this whole nightmare ends barring of course anything like an Astroid or some form of ET attack vaporizing us from our orbit. My guess is that it will get really ugly before we finally become dust. I am certain that we humans will want to go out in a big bang so I look for some kind of final destructive WW III scenario to play out for control of the masses and somehow something will go really wrong or a grand miscalculation will occur that will cause this entire planet to go dark. Oh Well....Nothing lasts for ever....Not even a Star! _________________ "BE STRONG AND OF GOOD COURAGE"
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Mulligan	Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:43 pm
Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero	Quote: Extreme power hungry Far right folks like(Hitler) Not that I want to split hairs or be nit-picky here, but I would argue that Hitler and all that he stood for was actually far Left in effect, rather than far Right. I’m afraid that the Left has painted Conservatives as ‘Nazi-like’ over the years. Recall lately that our dear Ms. Speaker of the House referring to the Tea Party protesters as ‘Nazis’ not long ago. The very term ‘Nazi’ itself means National Socialists. _________________ The snow is gone.
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loonietunes	Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 5:56 pm
Joined: 30 Mar 2006 Posts: 1210	The snow falling faintly through the Universe Interesting that the DC political power and nerve center is being absolutely crushed in a record snow fall as we speak..... ...In a way, this record snow storm seems to be Nature's reply to the 2008/2009 political "Snow Job" that was attempted on the American people. It also seems that Nature/Deity has a sense of humor since all of this record crushing snow fall in the DC Area is occuring on the "Tea Party" Week-End. Mul...Your point is well taken regarding Hitler. Extreme power hungry Socialists right or left is and also has been the problem throughout the ages not the solution. Anytime anyone or any group plays Diety and wants to Lord over the masses it never works long term. These despots Left or Right, throughout time have tried to control the masses by crushing their freedom to speak, worship and lately are even desperately trying once again to tell humans what to read, how to think and what TV shows to watch. Some of the more ruthless despots have killed millions upon millions of humans trying to succeed in this uthopian dream world of total Political/Economic control but it all ends the same. Sooner or later their all power seeking revolutions all end in a heap of Ashes! Some revolutions just last longer then others but end they all do! History teaches us that The power of the Individual has always smashed the Power of the State even if at times it has taken Centuries or even thousands of years to make it happen. The Human spirit cannot be really totally contained nor can it ever really be totally controlled. It just ain't ever going to happen. It never has really happened in the history of the world and it certainly won't be happening in this world we now live in. _________________ "BE STRONG AND OF GOOD COURAGE"
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unionnow	Posted: Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:33 pm
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 658 Location: Gettin the Hell out of retail	Quote: Oh Well....Nothing lasts for ever....Not even a Star! Newtons first law of motion is forever under the laws of the physical we live under. Quote: The Human spirit cannot be really totally contained nor can it ever really be totally controlled. It just ain't ever going to happen. It never has really happened in the history of the world and it certainly won't be happening in this world we now live in. While denying its existence the powers that be have done a pretty good job of controlling the human spirit. States sort of collapse under the weight of their own ambitions and past successes. It doesn't take a degree in history to see that is where the American Empire is headed. Hitler was a National Socialist. I have some great books dating back to the 30's that outline the corporate spiderweb and the people that rode his wave to power and cashed in on his rise and fall. Pretty interesting stuff. Lots of parallels to today minus the overt murders. Now the murders are covert and the removals and controls are overtly practiced through the use of controlled scandals or threats of scandals. Even some current political families in the US(among other places) right and left rode the wave back then. They are still around today. Its going to get much much worse. _________________ “The burden against Damascus. ‘Behold, Damascus will cease from being a city, and it will be a ruinous heap. (Isaiah 17:1-2)
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Why we need to support Obama's Health Care reform


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