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Nowtopia | Rethinking the Politics of Work
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Nowtopia | Rethinking the Politics of Work
Nowtopia | Rethinking the Politics of Work
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| wm pasz |
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:35 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1219 Location: Toronto |
Digging ourselves our of the current economic crisis is going to require more than tax-payer funded bailouts of failing corporatist ventures. Different ways of conceiving economic and social relations need to be explored by we the people. Chris Carlsson is a writer and community activist who is doing his share to rethink economic relations. A glimpse of his thinking is available in a short piece called Building the anti-economy. His recent book Nowtopia explores the new politics of work.
Quote: [Nowtopia] profiles tinkerers, inventors, and improvisational spirits who bring an artistic approach to important tasks that are ignored or undervalued by market society. Rooted in practices that have been emerging over the past few decades, Nowtopia’s exploration of work locates an important thread of self-emancipatory class politics beyond the traditional arena of wage-labor. An indepth interview with Carlsson. _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X |
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| MichaelTroyMoore |
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:07 pm
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Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Posts: 277 Location: Behind the Lines in "Loveall Land" |
I have a invention I came up with about 10 years ago.
The device I created I stumble on to the concept while drinking whiskey in front of my rehearsal studio and watching traffic drive down Interstate 80 in Roseville, California. My band was late for rehearsal, I was pissed off so I pour myself some whisky and sat out in front on the bumper of my car while playing with a non battery Dymno flashlight. It had a hand squeeze pedal to generate electrical power for the light bulb in the flash light. I am watching the cars drive by, I start thinking of all that wasted power of the cars that fly by. I think about what if we put some kind of fans or sails near the freeway or under the over passes to collect the cars energy as they pass by? I thought about it for a minute then abandon the thought. Then I was thinking of the cars tires rolling motion there is power there how to transfer it to a system to generated electrical power? Then I put down the whiskey and held the flash light up to the freeway at arms length as if to see the car tires drive over the hand pedal of the flash light. I imaged each car tire rolling over the flash light pedal and the weigh and the motion of the car would press it down and release and each time the dynmo was turned and created electricity. I took the flash light apart made a plywood box and set it up as a road with a toy car to roll over the pedal. My 1st working model. Now if you have ever been to a drive in theater you know the exit has those spikes you drive over when you exit but if you try to sneak in they will pop your tires. Now think of a device with short of the same concept and there are no spikes to destroys tires but a small bump and when the tires roll over it it is depressed and turns a shaft that turns a generator- dymno and makes: FREE POWER! Free power from cars passing down a city street-road or interstate. You would have to embedded my device in the roads on a large scale this would produce maybe half the power for any cities it surrounds I am a idea guy, and I am sure there are physicists who could take my device and come up with the number needed to power half or a whole city. I did send a letter to Mayor Ray Neghain of New Orleans regarding my invention after Katrina but I never heard back. The device works and is simple and cheap to make. I don't know what to do with it but I do have it. Also, I used to think on the concept of making almost the entire state of Nevada a huge solar panel, as I thought of it I came to the conclusion that it might cost to much to create. So them I came up with the though that 70+ percent of the Earth is covered by oceans which are dark in color and absorb a lot of solar energy, I then came up with a theory that if stations on every coast with rotating cables were cast out to sea maybe 5 to 15 miles the cables could "Harvest" solar energy right off the surface of the oceans and transfer the energy back to the main land and it could create electrical power. Free electrical non-polluting power for the whole world. Now a possible by-product of this would be from taking the Solar Energy off the surface of the ocean would be a planet wide temperature reduction. Global warming would be slowed or reversed depending on the scale and amount of energy taken from this Natural Solar panel system and turned in clean power for the Human Race. Dependence on fossil fuels would be over. But who is going to listen to me? I am just a former right hand man to a mob boss and a singer in a rock in roll band. These inventions and Ideas are from my creation as was my first idea of faster than light travel engine that my 8th grade teacher got pissed off at when him and I debate if something could go fasts as light or faster. He said NOTHING I said he was wrong, I was suspend for making him look stupid in class when I told the class how in theory this could be done. The class told him he was wrong and I might be right. When I was suspend, I went home designed the engine did a crude blue print and came back to class, My teacher said he was sorry and never seen anything like this before and I explained How it might work, he took me over to the college we showed a teacher there then I was taken to the Ames Research Center in Mt. View California and was able to show it there to NASA scientists They made copies and said it was interesting. Several years later NASA was experimenting with a way to lift satellites into orbit using only lasers. Oddly enough the firing chamber for this experimental lift system was a lot alike of my crude blue print I made at age 13 for my theoretical faster than light engine NASA had made copies of years before. Did they steal it or were they and I thinking on the same level, who knows? The device that I created could be made to help with our energy problems, it is real I have made a small and full scale working models in the past and my Daughter made a small scale versions and entered it in the sci-fair at her school took 2nd place and another students dad who works at AEROJET was taking pictures and writing notes about it. Our problems do not have complex solutions, ideas and inventions are simple and work, but the people who stand to lose control of the human race and all the money they steal by selling us dirty polluting energies have created a wall of phony complexity to keep us under their power for their profit. Michael Troy Moore |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:09 pm
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: Efforts to create islands of utopia have always flourished on the margins of capitalist society, but never to the extent that a radically different way of living has been able to supplant market society's daily life. This is well-intentioned stuff, to be sure. After all, what else is liberalism than the state of being well-intentioned to the ends of one's own destruction? Carisson’s article reads like Stewart Brand’s utopian minded Whole Earth Catalogue of the late 1960s –brought up to a more modern view (i.e. a new generation of those who never heard of it before, or never realized its built-in flaws). Don’t get me wrong, though, the WEC made for fascinating reading and fantasizing. Whatever dreams the great plains pioneers of the American 1800s had in the Sears Catalogue of that day, the would-be counter-culturalists of the 1960s also had in the WEC. The truth is more likely that man-made utopias have only ‘flourished’ briefly because they don’t work. Oh I applaud the effort all right, but until there is a way to permanently change human nature, there will be no utopia. And… the ‘margins of capitalist society’ will always have plenty of room for those who want to take another crack at utopia building out there on the margins. But they’ll be back sooner or later. |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 5:40 am
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter |
It's Christmas Mull don't bring me down eh. Quote: Human Potential is unknowable _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| MichaelTroyMoore |
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:43 am
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Joined: 12 Nov 2008 Posts: 277 Location: Behind the Lines in "Loveall Land" |
Other posts from above said:
"but until there is a way to permanently change human nature, there will be no utopia." & "one would have to believe "human nature" has reached it's full potential and we've come to the end of the road." I have seen first hand corruption to protect a privilege few and keep overlords in power, those "FEW" would NEVER be able to compete or survive had a level playing field and fairness been enforced. The Talents of those who run the world and kingdoms big and small is that of Nepotism, Scams and Deceit. They have no creativity, no ideas , no vision and certainty No Human passion. They are vessel without a soul in a way. They are sub-human and they hold back the real Human evolution. Why Hold the Human race back if we have come to an "End in the human races true potential?" if we are at the end of the road and we are just useless feeders then we would be no threat and not ever be able to overthrow our masters. The Truth and the fact is given the right evolvement all human can evolve and grow to their full potential , what ever that potential is unknown but I am sure a majority of the Humans on this planet are "Being Kept Down" by various beliefs systems, family members, employers and other organizations and groups who do exist and it is in their mission statements to stop us. I remember a conservative taking the RUSH Limbaugh party line "Well we all known Communism and Socialism is a failed from of government, I leaned over and asked "really how do you know it is a failed form of government???" He went down the list of Ronald Regan talking points. I told him "Now what would have happen if the industrialist had not sabotaged Communism and socialism over the last 100+ years?" He kept saying it was a failed system and even agreed on the sabotage saying Capitalist nations worked to undermine it. We don't know if it would have worked or not since the "Few" who run the planet used it as a boogie man and played both sides then in the end made sure it was Sabotaged. With that said I am not a Commie or a socialist. I just though this asshole needed to get blind sided with a question since he was bragging about being a master of the universe and RUSH IS RIGHT in a bar. I like capitalism with the exception of the human and planetary wreckage that is left behind and those who are trampled under foot in the Quest for profits. To me when I see a Wal Mart or other corporations roll like a profit war machine across the planet their ad's are deceptive and are full of shit to extract your money that you earn from your labor. How is it that a crack head can have a uncontrollable drive and lust for a fix and his dope, but when it comes to a Corporation they can have the SAME M.O. as the Junkie but when it is Business it is almost like "GOD" is doing it and you can not question GOD about anything "OH this is business" like it is a "Free Pass" and we will ignore the suffering caused in the name of profit. ALL WORSHIP HOLY PROFIT! There is no difference between the corporations predatory behavior and a junkie's need for a fix it is the same with the exception is the junkie will do anything for a fix and someday will "Get Clean" or Overdose and his trial of suffering his and his victims will come to and end upon his death. The corporation structure is a abomination in the true sense of the word, "Corporeal" A body without a soul or conscience, a Monster, a Predator. Lets face it the Human Race is no longer the "Dominate Life" Form on Earth! Sometime in the late 19th Century this Artificial life form came into existence. There is an interesting California Supreme Court decision I think around 1887? I read it a long time ago "Santa Clara VS. Union Pacific Railroad" (I think it was against UP railroad?) Where the court declared Corporations NOT TO HAVE SAME RIGHTS AS HUMAN BEINGS AND NOR COULD THEY EVER HAVE GREATER RIGHTS THAN HUMANS AS LIFEFORM" However, this ruling was ignored and the Corporations had sex on paper and created more artificial life forms and have over ran the Earth in less than 100 years. Now a human has a short life span 75 years maybe and maybe the best years for a human to work for some one or run a business is half of that? Well we know the corporations can out live their founders and keep walking the Earth like a Vampire. Always on the Hunt and with no mercy. How can the Human Race ever compete? The answer is it can not. I looked at the structure of labor unions and wondered how can they fight against these monsters? The Labor union model is maybe 150 years out dated. and the corporations are reforming into even more complexes artificial life forms with safe guards against any new weapons the Humans came up with to fight them over the last Hundred Years. The Musicians Union the AFM as it is called. had laws written against them only to prevent trying to organize after their President Jimmy Petrillo took the entire recoding industry on Strike 2 times for 2 years during the 1940's. Pertillo shut down the industry and Congress wrote new laws on behalf of the record companies and Broadcasters to stop the Musicians Union "Secondary Boycott" was one of these laws to protect the corporations. Then Congress failed to make Musicians employees under the law even when there was a clear employer-employee relationship. This pulled all working musicians outside of the protections of the National Labor Relations Act and forbid them from unionizing in the United States. If the Musicians wanted the AFM to represent them and the AFM did what every other labor union could do the AFM was SUED into surrender. This have been going on over 50+ years. What I find interesting is the Secondary Boycott is unconstitutional it only affects Labors Union and 90 percent of the time only the Musicians Union. A group or church can object to a skit on Saturday Night Live as they find a skit offensive and they contact Loren Michael's the shows producer and say "Hey don't do such and such skip or we will boycott SNL!!!!" Michael's tells them F" off! and broadcasts the skit. Then the group or church goes out and launches a boycott against every advertiser on NBC- SNL. That is a secondary boycott but the church is not held liable for any lost revenues of the advertisers. The Musicians Union would be. That is a double standard under the law. I don't think anyone, or any group should be prevent from engaging in any form of boycott against anyone if they choose to protest. It is a free speech issue. I think there is many more things new systems under the sun we have NEVER been able to "TRY" and some not yet invented. We are left with choose the LEFT or RIGHT or the middle, if we think of it as a Bird Left or Right Wing? are there not more dimensions to a bird that left or right? There is the head and the tail and the bottom and the top. Why are our political systems limited to or a 2 dimensional choice or reality? We live in a much larger universe all has not been tried and those who are in power in the Left and the right work together to prevent us from considering other systems and creating new solutions to Human Kinds problems. We have a right to evolve and live up to our potential as a human being and as a race of Humans, but first we all have to shake off the masters of this world and break the illusion that we are presented with 24/7 in the media. If some Human Nature is holding us back then we need to take the best of our human nature and over come those who have sold out the Human Race. |
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| wm pasz |
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:01 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1219 Location: Toronto |
Mulligan, can you think about anything that might change some element of our existence on this planet without falling whole hog into "isms" of one kind of another? It's entirely possible that the old ideologies of previous centuries are no longer relevant and no longer provide any kind of useful foundation for moving forward. It never ceases to amaze me how tenaciously some people cling to ideas that were floated hundreds of years ago by people who were trying to understand the world as it existed then even though our existence bears little resemblance to theirs.
I would also point out to you that no one is pursing utopian notions here. People want to fix the problems created by the current and past generations so that we don't all drown in our own excrement. I for one believe it's high time to start creating the anti-economy. Here's a novel suggestion: Cut up your credit cards and tell your creditors they'll get their money when you get a government bailout. If we all did it, the whole usurious system would collapse and something new might just develop. _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X |
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| wm pasz |
Posted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:19 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1219 Location: Toronto |
What to you think about Carlsson's comment that there are entire groups of jobs that aren't needed or productive (he mentions jobs in the banking sector but you could add a lot of others - marketing would be one that comes to mind)?
I've often thought this is the case (it's that "non-productive labor" that Adam Smith wrote about in Wealth of Nations). It seems to me that we have hundreds of thousands of people working in these non-productive jobs yet there is so much work in useful productive endeavours (like the health sciences for instance) and not enough people to do it. (No, no Mulligan, I'm not suggesting that we force people to do certain kinds of work or dictate what they do for a living). My point is that as the new or alternative economy develops, it may well be that certain kinds of job disappear altogether and this isn't necessarily going to be a bad thing. _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:36 am
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter |
Quote: No, no Mulligan, I'm not suggesting that we force people to do certain kinds of work...  sorry Mull but you have to admit that's funny.
I know the idea has been slopped around a lot but it looks like cutting out the middleman is at long last on the to do list. Mull imagine a global economy where people can get from A to B without having to pony up a ransom. You know the other free trade. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| rogead |
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:22 pm
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Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 412 |
It’s always perplexed me how any worker, regardless of politics, can be willing to accept the wage system as just compensation. It should be apparent to anyone that workers are intentionally paid a wage that is below the value of their labor. Clearly, an employer wouldn’t agree to a wage payment unless that employer can realize a profit above and beyond the expenditure. Marx dealt with the in-depth economics of the issue in “Value, Price, and Profit”; but, again, this should be a no-brainer.
What’s happening to workers…employed and unemployed… across the globe is something which transcends economic politics. This isn’t about capitalism, communism, or anything in between. It is a simple matter of basic human dignity and fairness. Kudos to Carlsson and others who are looking for a new path. |
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| SharynS |
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 3:59 pm
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter |
Quote: ... an employer wouldn’t agree to a wage payment unless that employer can realize a profit above and beyond the expenditure _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 6:34 pm
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: …don't bring me down… Sorry Sig. I must have left the mega-wattage turned up from some other go-around. Let me turn it down just a little… there… ok, testing… **… for roses that bloom in the spring, tra, la!!** How’s that? Quote: It's entirely possible that the old ideologies of previous centuries are no longer relevant and no longer provide any kind of useful foundation for moving forward. I hope you’re including Marx[ism] with the “old ideologies” of the past, Wanda. In the contest between Marx[ism] and capital[ism] over the last two hundred years, capitalism has won hands down as the more desirable form of economic system. Marxism, in its protean forms, only works when it is enforced in some fashion. Capitalism, despite our present malaise, works in the long run because people are able to live out their lives with out being under the ‘whip,’ so to speak, -or at least being under a milder sort of whip than Marxism offers. As I said, it’s all ‘well intentioned stuff’ because that’s really all it is. Every generation has a ‘guru’ who, like Carlsson, comes up with this kind of Moon Dust in some form or another. It’s ‘busy-work’ for the mind. Quote: Nowtopians, and anyone determined to free themselves from the constraints of economically defined life… Um, the error in Carlsson’s thinking is that the “economically defined life” is the world system that we live in no matter what form it takes, and exists no matter how much we do or don’t like it. There is no escape. This economic system is dictated by the fact that we have to eat every day, and therefore we must work to provide ourselves with a living. Quote: How is it Utopian to think a better way can and will be "invented"… Carlsson’s article is about “Now-topianism,” I think: Quote: The Nowtopian movement embodies a growing minority seeking emancipation from the treadmill of consumerism and overwork. (How does he know there is a “growing minority?” What evidence is there?) Anyway, the current system (capitalism) is not ‘invented.’ It is driven by necessity, and happens, by default, to be the one that works. Marxism (utopianism) is an invention that is driven by class envy. Quote: …end of the road… Perhaps we have come to the end of the road; in which case we seem to be heading down another well-worn road –that of socialism (refer to the last US national election). Quote: …no one is pursing utopian notions here… How can you say that? Carlsson’s thesis has to do with ‘New-topian-ism' (see above).’ Quote: …entire groups of jobs that aren't needed or productive… Well, that’s probably true, but as a statement, it also smacks of Marxist ideology; and therefore Utopian[ism]. |
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| wm pasz |
Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:03 pm
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1219 Location: Toronto |
I think rogead that you've hit the nail on the head. The very idea of wage labor is wrong. When I was doing a lot of reading about the early years of the industrial revolution, it occurred to me that by the late 1800s, people had accepted the wage system (although they had protested it for many decades) and it was at that point that any hope of reaching any kind of equitable society was finished. People put themselves in a no-win situation where no matter how hard they fought for fair treatment it would always be out of reach.
The notion of renting yourself out for use by others is self-destroying and extinguishes human potential. Now a really interesting question is - if we were to replace wage labor - what would we replace it with? (BTW Mull - yes I include Marxism in the list of outdated ideas). _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X |
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| Mulligan |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 12:47 am
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Joined: 04 Feb 2006 Posts: 358 Location: Ground Zero |
Quote: BTW Mull - yes I include Marxism in the list of outdated ideas Well then, voila! I win my point. Utopianism is the ultimate (and false) object of Marxism. |
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| rogead |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 2:19 am
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Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 412 |
Quote: Well then, voila! I win my point. Utopianism is the ultimate (and false) object of Marxism. Mulligan, Karl Marx didn’t have all of the answers; and his economic theories are neither perfect, nor any more utopian than are others. ALL economic theories are presented by their originators as being ideal…or at least as close to ideal as is possible. I suspect that Adam Smith would be as appalled by the current state of capitalism as Marx would be by what passes as communism. Both were great thinkers, both seem to have found some parts of the puzzle. Descendant theories from both Marx and Smith have led to almost unspeakable human atrocities at one time or another. That pattern seems to keep repeating itself. This really isn’t about any codified economic system. It’s about finding a way of living our lives and interacting with each other in a manner that isn’t structured to automatically exclude/ignore a majority of the planet’s population. We have people in this world who are starving to death---they literally don’t have food to provide enough calories to sustain their bodies. We have others who suffer and die from easily prevented or treatable diseases. These are the more extreme legacies of capitalism as it has been practiced. In a closer-to-home assessment, look at the tens of millions of Americans who have no access to health care. Look at the retirement funds gone up in smoke. Look at how joblessness and homelessness have begun to seriously infiltrate the middle class. Consider the coming domino effect in commercial properties that is certain to result from the personal mortgage crisis. Communism as historically practiced isn’t going to fix any of this, but the status quo of capitalism holds no more promise. The idea is therefore to find a new economic theory. This is about so much more than the Limbaughesque platitude, “class envy”: If we can’t create a world which provides physical sustenance and emotional comfort for everyone, none of us will ultimately be secure. We'll continue to fight for resources. We'll keep starting wars over oil, or water, or an imaginary border. Our history as a species may be filled with acts of inhumanity, but we have also shown our ability to grow through social evolution. Let's keep doing it! Quote: Now a really interesting question is - if we were to replace wage labor - what would we replace it with? As to your question wm, I wish I had an answer. I suspect that technology and globalism have taken us too far to make the barter system effective as a replacement for wage payments. I’m convinced that the answer somehow lies in democratic worker collectives. That is to say, in non-political structures of workers--- who make democratic decisions concerning their workplaces, and who share the profits within that democratic process. This would necessarily involve worker ownership of those workplaces. It wouldn’t necessarily mean a socialist political structure. The problem is: how do we get there? Small businesses, yet alone massive corporate entities, aren’t going to give away their wealth and privilege. So, it’s up to workers to force the issue. As more and more businesses begin to go bankrupt (a part of this economic shithole we’re only now beginning to see), an opportunity may exist for worker collectives to take control of those companies…perhaps with no-interest government loans as seed money. Another possibility is a program of business debt forgiveness, premised on the condition of worker ownership of the business. |
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| wm pasz |
Posted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:42 am
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Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1219 Location: Toronto |
Quote: As more and more businesses begin to go bankrupt (a part of this economic shithole we’re only now beginning to see), an opportunity may exist for worker collectives to take control of those companies…perhaps with no-interest government loans as seed money. Another possibility is a program of business debt forgiveness, premised on the condition of worker ownership of the business. I think you may be on to something here. I'm quite sure that the economic meltdown is far from over and that many many businesses are going to go bust, including the large companies that went global and are now going to find themselves in an awful jam for a variety of reasons that all have to do with the globalization myth. Here in Ontario we are already seeing a wave of business bankruptcies that will leave many small and midsize communities without a major employer. I'm thinking that these communities may hold the keys to the future. In some ways they may be good incubators for alternative ecomonic models - experiments of sorts in economic practices that are community-based and that make sustainability rather than profitability their goal. These experiments could, among their goals, aim to minimize dependence on cash or credit by encouraging bartering or fair exchange type arrangements. It would also be a great opportunity to try out democratic workplace arrangements. The town that I grew up in is a community that grew up with one large employer, a mining firm that ceased operations several years ago. The town itself was somewhat unique for a mining community - it was built in the 1950's as a planned community with a lot of emphasis on quality of life, families, recreation, stability and so on. It actually survived for a long time (almost 50 years which is really long for a mining place). Since the mine closed, the community has slipped into decline. The citizens have tried the usual remedies - tourism, low taxes and so on - to attract economic development but without success. (They're too remote to stand a chance of rebuilding their economy this way). It's really too bad because the place was really a good place to live and maybe has some potential for a next phase in its development. In a recent exchange on a social networking site (a big reunion is planned for this summer and some of us ex-residents were talking about some interesting activities - that go beyond just getting drunk) I suggested that we hold an impromptu conference with current and former residents to brainstorm about the possibility of breathing new life into the local economy through sustainability initiatives. It's possible that a concerted effort might draw some government funding and interest from academic, scientific and other research-oriented communities. The suggestion is not that the residents hire themselves out as guinea pigs but develop partnerships with other groups to try out new approaches to community that don't involve reliance on the resource industry and it's handful of large corporate players. There's a bit of interest in this and I'm hoping that we may be able to do something along these lines even if on a very informal basis. I mention this because as the new year unfolds I think that a lot of communities are going to be facing similar issues. As the big manufacturing plants and service industry operations close or shrink in size, people are going to be left with few viable choices. There will be no new frontier to which to escape. Nor will packing up and moving to the city be much of an option. Life will not be any better in our large urban centers (we've been there and done that enough times in the past few hundred years to know that it's not going to work out well for us). I think that a lot of people will want to stay put and rebuild their communities and so, if there are some ideas about how this could be done, the time may be right. I think this could also be done in larger centers although maybe on a neighborhood or district basis. It's a lot more complicated to do sustainability experiments in a big city - hence the reason I think it may be more viable to start in smaller communities. What we learn from our collective experiences could go a long way to evolving the new economic "thing". _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X |
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