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Labor Vanishes?

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workerpower	Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:58 pm
Joined: 29 Mar 2007 Posts: 101	I wrote that the financial crisis/recession/depression whatever you want to call it is the result of unplanned production. Speculation played a large role in making it worse, but ultimately it was the unplanned nature of capitalist production that caused the crisis. In this case housing was the major instigating factor. Houses were being built well beyond what he market could bear to sell. Speculation drove up prices of houses, but eventually, as supplies of new empty houses got to a certain level, the inflated value of homes fell. The broader consequences were a result of the packaging of securities backed by mortgages, which in turn were backed by the houses themselves. Problem was, once the market adjusted the price of homes, a $250,000 mortgage loan was now secured by a $100,000 house. But even when signs of the bubble bursting started to become apparent, builders kept building homes and banks kept loaning exorbitant amounts of money, and investors kept buying the debt, all in chase of profit. And plus, I don't think the powers that be could plan a financial crisis if they wanted to. They just don't know how to do it, and would have to have cooperation of most of the capital in the world to pull it off.
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markus	Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 9:10 pm
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 131 Location: Toronto	Workerpower That's what you believe, but that doesn't mean it wasn't orchestrated. In any event, how does the financial crisis planned or unplanned, relate to values, which influence our actions and the question, who am I and who are we? If as you believe the financial crisis was unplanned, meaning that the corporations are not to blame for the crisis, does that affect the way you view corporations and in turn affect your actions. If you believe the financial crisis was planned how do you see the corporations and does it affect your actions?
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ross53	Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 2:45 am
Joined: 24 May 2006 Posts: 1435 Location: california	markus wrote: Now...back to the subject. You know the more things change the more they remain the same. Who are you? What are you? Beside a legend in your own mind!!!!!! _________________ " I always wondered why somebody doesn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody" Lilly Tomlin.
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markus	Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 4:41 am
Joined: 06 Jul 2008 Posts: 131 Location: Toronto	ross53 wrote: markus wrote: Now...back to the subject. You know the more things change the more they remain the same. Who are you? What are you? Beside a legend in your own mind!!!!!! Ross53, the quote "Now...back to the subject." is by Wmpasz
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SharynS	Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:55 am
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 2939 Location: the 'puter	Quote: You know the more things change the more they remain the same. No Ross, "back to the subject" is the warning forum moderators give when you go off topic. If you have a personal beef then take it to your own thread and stop shitting in this one. Consider this a second and final warning. _________________ Free speech is the whole thing, the whole ball game. Free speech is life itself. - Salman Rushdie
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wm pasz	Posted: Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:52 pm
Joined: 29 Jan 2006 Posts: 1219 Location: Toronto	I'm not sure that I agree with workerpower's suggestion that unplanned production is the cause of the current economic meltdown. All production is planned on some level. If the suggestion is that there should be some kind of central planning of production, I don't think that's a solution - look at the economic nightmare that was the Soviet Union (where all production was centrally planned). If, however, what workerpower is talking about is unnecessary or over-production, then that's something that definitely played a part. Regarding the comments about whether or not the whole thing was planned, I don't think that it was - at least not in the sense that all these wheeler-dealers got together and cooked up a big plot to loot the economy and then loot the federal treasury. Little groups of them all got the same ideas as soon as the legal and regulatory barriers that kept them from their worst temptations were removed. They all knew or should have known where it would lead and they didn't give a shit. Does this mean we need more regulation and more planned production? I think we sure need more regulation (this is one of the reason's that Canada's banking system is now being touted as one of the most stable in the G8 universe - and it sounds like it really is). But on the subject of production - I think we need to get a common understanding of what we mean by "planned". I'm not a fan of government planning production because inevitably there will be bureaucracy, inefficiency, waste and corruption. I think people should be encouraged to start smaller-scale local businesses that produce on a smaller scale and do it based on the needs of communities rather than the manufactured wants of mass markets. This may be a small step towards building a different economy. _________________ Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it's against the oppressor. You don't need anything else. - Malcolm X
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Scott Schroeder	Posted: Thu Oct 16, 2008 6:52 pm
Joined: 20 Dec 2007 Posts: 403 Location: Some where on the mountain	wm pasz wrote: Scott, I suppose having first asked the question, it's only fair that I begin the story-sharing. I think that I will start a separate thread for that and hopefully others will join in. NOTE: The new thread is here. Wanda I know you're a busy person but I'm eagerly awaiting to hear the rest of your story! Kinda wanted to find out more about who you are before I got started on my story. When you get a chance would love to read more! _________________ I will believe corporations are people when Texas executes one!
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